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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Mar 6, 2020 17:53:36 GMT
How embarrassing, having your Pants split in public.
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neilm
Non-Aligned
Posts: 25,023
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Post by neilm on Mar 6, 2020 19:18:09 GMT
The problems at Merthyr are likely to spread a bit I suspect, there's a serious lack of political control on some Welsh authorities and there's some pretty hefty empire building/jobs for the boys going on leading to inevitable clashes when there's a change of control.
I'd have sent commissioners into Merthyr by now and made sure they cleared out the officers.
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Post by gwynthegriff on Mar 7, 2020 21:44:21 GMT
Evie Martin, Brexit Party PPC for Sittingbourne & Sheppey {but stood down by Farage} has - it is reported - joined …
the Liberal Democrats.
Well, quite.
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Post by Arthur Figgis on Mar 7, 2020 22:09:13 GMT
Swale...
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Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
Posts: 11,504
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Post by Khunanup on Mar 7, 2020 22:16:41 GMT
Evie Martin, Brexit Party PPC for Sittingbourne & Sheppey {but stood down by Farage} has - it is reported - joined … the Liberal Democrats. Well, quite. Well, I had a resident tell me this week that they can vote for us again habitually as we've now left the EU... The Brexit Party was a massive catchall after all (far more than UKIP ever was).
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J.G.Harston
Lib Dem
Leave-voting Brexit-supporting Liberal Democrat
Posts: 13,586
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Post by J.G.Harston on Mar 7, 2020 22:20:05 GMT
Evie Martin, Brexit Party PPC for Sittingbourne & Sheppey {but stood down by Farage} has - it is reported - joined … the Liberal Democrats. Well, quite. Well, I had a resident tell me this week that they can vote for us again habitually as we've now left the EU... The Brexit Party was a massive catchall after all (far more than UKIP ever was). Matches exactly what we were getting in SBC in the locals and S&W in the general. "We'll vote for you again once we've left."
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Mar 7, 2020 22:27:07 GMT
Evie Martin, Brexit Party PPC for Sittingbourne & Sheppey {but stood down by Farage} has - it is reported - joined … the Liberal Democrats. Well, quite. This is not actually an enormous surprise, given that her husband is Benjamin A. Martin - an Independent Faversham town councillor who joined the Liberal Democrats in 2018 and was elected to Swale borough council in 2019 as a Liberal Democrat in Priory ward. (But neither of them is any relation to Ben J. Martin who is the leader of the Liberal Democrats on Swale borough council and also from Faversham)
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Post by andrewp on Mar 7, 2020 22:37:45 GMT
Evie Martin, Brexit Party PPC for Sittingbourne & Sheppey {but stood down by Farage} has - it is reported - joined … the Liberal Democrats. Well, quite. Well, I had a resident tell me this week that they can vote for us again habitually as we've now left the EU... The Brexit Party was a massive catchall after all (far more than UKIP ever was). I think there are a chunk of voters who stopped voting Lib Dem because of bollocks to Brexit, either because they wanted to leave or they voted remain but wanted to honour the referendum, who will feel that we are leaving now, so they can vote Lib Dem again. I know of a couple of them.
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Post by timrollpickering on Mar 7, 2020 22:53:46 GMT
How long before the likes of Wera Hobhouse drive them away again?
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Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
Posts: 11,504
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Post by Khunanup on Mar 7, 2020 23:05:01 GMT
How long before the likes of Wera Hobhouse drive them away again? How? Is our leaving the EU going to have miraculously not happened just because some Lib Dem MPs exist. If only they had that power...
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Foggy
Non-Aligned
Long may it rain
Posts: 5,506
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Post by Foggy on Mar 8, 2020 1:21:29 GMT
How long before the likes of Wera Hobhouse drive them away again? If anybody is put off by The Blessed Wera, then the Lib Dems would do well not to court their vote in the first place.
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mboy
Liberal
Listen. Think. Speak.
Posts: 22,315
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Post by mboy on Mar 8, 2020 9:08:18 GMT
How long before the likes of Wera Hobhouse drive them away again? Obviously if Wera wins the leadership that will be a problem. If she doesn’t (fingers crossed) then a lot will depend on whether the FBPE element of the party is able to move on from the “Brexit is a stupid racist lie” rhetoric. Leavers will not come back to the party as long as it seems like that’s our message; which is different from saying “Our future should be in the EU” but some seem unable to make the distinction.
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 36,468
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Post by The Bishop on Mar 8, 2020 10:16:41 GMT
"tHe ReFeReNdUm WaS AdViSoRy....RuSsIaN bOtS!!??!!!111!!"
Of course, much the same applies to my party as well.
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Post by yellowperil on Mar 8, 2020 10:57:53 GMT
How long before the likes of Wera Hobhouse drive them away again? Obviously if Wera wins the leadership that will be a problem. If she doesn’t (fingers crossed) then a lot will depend on whether the FBPE element of the party is able to move on from the “Brexit is a stupid racist lie” rhetoric. Leavers will not come back to the party as long as it seems like that’s our message; which is different from saying “Our future should be in the EU” but some seem unable to make the distinction. Language is all. I would say we should be saying "our future (long term, implied) should be with the EU", rather than necessarily" in " the EU. And that is coming from somebody who was always on the strongly pro-remainwing of the party. I will vote for somebody who makes that distinction absoluely clear.
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iang
Lib Dem
Posts: 1,508
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Post by iang on Mar 8, 2020 18:16:22 GMT
Well, I had a resident tell me this week that they can vote for us again habitually as we've now left the EU... The Brexit Party was a massive catchall after all (far more than UKIP ever was). I think there are a chunk of voters who stopped voting Lib Dem because of bollocks to Brexit, either because they wanted to leave or they voted remain but wanted to honour the referendum, who will feel that we are leaving now, so they can vote Lib Dem again. I know of a couple of them. The canvassing I did in Yardley during the General was very similar - "We'll vote for you locally, but..." Old friends of my father's are / were active Tories in Faversham - the lady concerned once said to my (liberal voting) mother "But that means you must believe in Proportional Representation" in the same sort of tones that someone else might use on discovering they were sacrificing goats to the Evil One...
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Post by Merseymike on Mar 9, 2020 14:09:07 GMT
I think there is a chunk of voters who formerly felt able to vote Lib Dem because they didn't actually stand for anything. Since 2016, that is no longer the case and is increasingly seen to be no longer the case. I think that's perhaps a slight exaggeration but certainly they have been a dustbin for the disillusioned. Certainly the disillusioned who wanted to leave the EU may have found them impossible to vote for
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iang
Lib Dem
Posts: 1,508
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Post by iang on Mar 9, 2020 15:35:16 GMT
I think there is a chunk of voters who formerly felt able to vote Lib Dem because they didn't actually stand for anything. Since 2016, that is no longer the case and is increasingly seen to be no longer the case. I think that's perhaps a slight exaggeration but certainly they have been a dustbin for the disillusioned. Certainly the disillusioned who wanted to leave the EU may have found them impossible to vote for I wouldn't actually dispute that - except perhaps to say that up to 2010, we had managed to build a "core vote", which was broadly based on what you might call the public sector middle class - and then we lost most of that through the Coalition
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Post by curiousliberal on Mar 9, 2020 16:44:59 GMT
I think that's perhaps a slight exaggeration but certainly they have been a dustbin for the disillusioned. Certainly the disillusioned who wanted to leave the EU may have found them impossible to vote for I wouldn't actually dispute that - except perhaps to say that up to 2010, we had managed to build a "core vote", which was broadly based on what you might call the public sector middle class - and then we lost most of that through the Coalition Yep, and a fair amount of that core vote was based on the opposite - a popularity based on the party's willingness to support fairly detailed, liberal and socially democratic policies. It would have been impossible to hold that together with the populist element forever, but the spectacular collapse was not wholly inevitable.
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J.G.Harston
Lib Dem
Leave-voting Brexit-supporting Liberal Democrat
Posts: 13,586
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Post by J.G.Harston on Mar 9, 2020 22:22:36 GMT
I wouldn't actually dispute that - except perhaps to say that up to 2010, we had managed to build a "core vote", which was broadly based on what you might call the public sector middle class - and then we lost most of that through the Coalition Yep, and a fair amount of that core vote was based on the opposite - a popularity based on the party's willingness to support fairly detailed, liberal and socially democratic policies. It would have been impossible to hold that together with the populist element forever, but the spectacular collapse was not wholly inevitable. There was also a certain tendancy at local government level for LibDems to be sort-of elected civil servants, non-dogmatic administrators, independants but with a party, sort of "vote for me because I think I'd be good dealing with applications for hot food licences and school transfers". The more national politicians got closer to national levers of power the more dogma came to the surface and national politics overshadowed local administration.
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Post by Merseymike on Mar 9, 2020 22:33:54 GMT
Yep, and a fair amount of that core vote was based on the opposite - a popularity based on the party's willingness to support fairly detailed, liberal and socially democratic policies. It would have been impossible to hold that together with the populist element forever, but the spectacular collapse was not wholly inevitable. There was also a certain tendancy at local government level for LibDems to be sort-of elected civil servants, non-dogmatic administrators, independants but with a party, sort of "vote for me because I think I'd be good dealing with applications for hot food licences and school transfers". The more national politicians got closer to national levers of power the more dogma came to the surface and national politics overshadowed local administration. I think the LibDems do well at local level because to an extent they take the politics out of local government. They focus very much on parish pump affairs and while it could be argued that community politics is itself reflective of an ideological approach I think its appeal is more that it appears not to be linked with "politics" The problem is that this doesn't always transfer easily to the national stage.
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