Jack
Reform Party
Posts: 8,121
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Post by Jack on Jun 9, 2018 18:51:33 GMT
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Jack
Reform Party
Posts: 8,121
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Post by Jack on Jul 14, 2018 18:07:10 GMT
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2018 18:13:26 GMT
Conservatives deserve to be punished after the joke Brexit proposals.
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Post by ccoleman on Jul 14, 2018 18:58:56 GMT
I had hope, however small, that the Tories were slowly but surely moving towards a sensible Brexit position, but polls like this will just push them back in the opposite direction.
I really wish Brexit would just piss off.
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jamie
Top Poster
Posts: 6,844
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Post by jamie on Jul 14, 2018 19:12:15 GMT
I had hope, however small, that the Tories were slowly but surely moving towards a sensible Brexit position, but polls like this will just push them back in the opposite direction. and then Parliamentary arithmetic, if not reality, will push them back again.
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Post by swanarcadian on Jul 14, 2018 19:24:46 GMT
Conservatives deserve to be punished after the joke Brexit proposals. I understand where you're coming from. If the alternative wasn't a Corbyn government I'd have more sympathy with it.
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European Lefty
Labour
Can be bribed with salted liquorice
Posts: 5,517
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Post by European Lefty on Jul 14, 2018 19:47:08 GMT
Absolutely beautiful poll. My question to SNP/LibDem members: if the opportunity arose, would you be happy to see your party support a Labour government in exchange for a people's vote on Brexit? And do you think your parties would actually do it?
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Post by ccoleman on Jul 14, 2018 19:57:35 GMT
Conservatives deserve to be punished after the joke Brexit proposals. I understand where you're coming from. If the alternative wasn't a Corbyn government I'd have more sympathy with it. That's the most surprising thing about the poll - you'd think allowing a Corbyn government in wouldn't be a risk worth taking, especially if there is a general election before we leave the EU and Labour win, potentially paving the way for a soft Brexit anyway.
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Post by Andrew_S on Jul 14, 2018 20:02:34 GMT
A 5.5% swing from Conservative to UKIP is the equivalent of about 1.73 million votes moving from one party to the other.
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mondialito
Labour
Everything is horribly, brutally possible.
Posts: 4,924
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Post by mondialito on Jul 14, 2018 20:04:36 GMT
I understand where you're coming from. If the alternative wasn't a Corbyn government I'd have more sympathy with it. That's the most surprising thing about the poll - you'd think allowing a Corbyn government in wouldn't be a risk worth taking, especially if there is a general election before we leave the EU and Labour win, potentially paving the way for a soft Brexit anyway. Having led their people to the top of the hill, the more sensible Tory Brexiteers are finding they can't bring them back down.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Opinium
Jul 14, 2018 20:58:55 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2018 20:58:55 GMT
Conservatives deserve to be punished after the joke Brexit proposals. I understand where you're coming from. If the alternative wasn't a Corbyn government I'd have more sympathy with it. if people want to vote to be like Venezuela then I back the democratic process. Unlike the result of Brexit, which has not been accepted by a large proportion of remainers in parliament.
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middyman
Conservative
"The problem with socialism is that, sooner or later, you run out of other people's money."
Posts: 8,050
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Post by middyman on Jul 14, 2018 21:01:59 GMT
I understand where you're coming from. If the alternative wasn't a Corbyn government I'd have more sympathy with it. if people want to vote to be like Venezuela then I back the democratic process. Unlike the result of Brexit, which has not been accepted by a large proportion of remainers in parliament. They are arrogant enough to think they know better than the majority of the voting populace.
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Opinium
Jul 14, 2018 21:27:28 GMT
via mobile
Post by beastofbedfordshire on Jul 14, 2018 21:27:28 GMT
'ol treeza's a corbynista
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Post by lancastrian on Jul 14, 2018 21:28:44 GMT
I understand where you're coming from. If the alternative wasn't a Corbyn government I'd have more sympathy with it. That's the most surprising thing about the poll - you'd think allowing a Corbyn government in wouldn't be a risk worth taking, especially if there is a general election before we leave the EU and Labour win, potentially paving the way for a soft Brexit anyway. That ship has sailed - if you want to express support for anything more than a very soft Brexit UKIP is the only option available. Many people who've voted for the Tories over Brexit won't overly care about economics, or if they can't end freedom of movement will move on to Corbyn to bring about his own sort of change.
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Post by ccoleman on Jul 14, 2018 21:37:27 GMT
if people want to vote to be like Venezuela then I back the democratic process. Unlike the result of Brexit, which has not been accepted by a large proportion of remainers in parliament. They are arrogant enough to think they know better than the majority of the voting populace. The majority of the voting populace know very little though.
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middyman
Conservative
"The problem with socialism is that, sooner or later, you run out of other people's money."
Posts: 8,050
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Post by middyman on Jul 14, 2018 21:40:59 GMT
They are arrogant enough to think they know better than the majority of the voting populace. The majority of the voting populace know very little though. Perhaps, more than you think.
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Post by ccoleman on Jul 14, 2018 21:43:46 GMT
The majority of the voting populace know very little though. Perhaps, more than you think. Probably not. Most people are politically disengaged and know very little about the issues they vote on. That isn't meant as an insult, it's just the way it is. I don't think the general public are the ones to be dictating government policy.
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middyman
Conservative
"The problem with socialism is that, sooner or later, you run out of other people's money."
Posts: 8,050
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Post by middyman on Jul 14, 2018 21:49:32 GMT
Perhaps, more than you think. Probably not. Most people are politically disengaged and know very little about the issues they vote on. That isn't meant as an insult, it's just the way it is. I don't think the general public are the ones to be dictating government policy. My error. I thought this was a democracy.
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Post by ccoleman on Jul 14, 2018 21:53:17 GMT
Probably not. Most people are politically disengaged and know very little about the issues they vote on. That isn't meant as an insult, it's just the way it is. I don't think the general public are the ones to be dictating government policy. My error. I thought this was a democracy. It is a democracy, just not a direct democracy.
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Post by greenchristian on Jul 14, 2018 22:00:42 GMT
if people want to vote to be like Venezuela then I back the democratic process. Unlike the result of Brexit, which has not been accepted by a large proportion of remainers in parliament. They are arrogant enough to think they know better than the majority of the voting populace. Politicians fall into two categories. One is those with principles and/or ideology, all of whom disagree with the majority view of the electorate on at least one political issue (and if they were impossibly lucky enough to happen to have an ideology that fits with current polling on everything, it would only be a matter of time before that changed). The other are those without, who are only in it to gain power for themselves or their interest group. And these politicians universally have the arrogant opinion that they are better than the electorate. And on the specific issue of Brexit, the only thing the referendum result tells us is that the public are split down the middle (with slightly more on one side than the other) on the general question of whether leaving the EU in general is a good idea or a bad idea (assuming, of course, that almost everybody who voted in the referendum did so on the basis of their actual beliefs about the question on the ballot paper). It tells us nothing about whether the public would prefer staying in the EU to leaving on whatever terms (if any) the current government negotiates. It tells us nothing about whether the view of the public has changed since the referendum. Whilst I think the second referendum campaign is unlikely to succeed, and is less productive for the remain side than trying to get an EEA/EFTA deal, their point of view is no more arrogant than a political party who have been voted out of office refusing to throw away their beliefs just because the electorate decided it wanted somebody else in charge.
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