The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 36,636
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Post by The Bishop on Mar 25, 2017 11:54:53 GMT
So how much attention will the media now give to a party with NO representatives in the Commons?
I see they were still quick to wheel out failed wannabe MP Nuttall after this week's events......
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2017 11:57:42 GMT
So how much attention will the media now give to a party with NO representatives in the Commons? I see they were still quick to wheel out failed wannabe MP Nuttall after this week's events...... So UKIP has now lost its Short Money, to add to its other woes.
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Post by Andrew_S on Mar 25, 2017 12:02:12 GMT
Douglas Carswell leaves UKIP; will sit as an Independent. Will not call a byelection. He may not be crossing to the Tories now, but there must be a decent chance of him being adopted/given a clear run by them come 2020? I don't see that myself, I think the Tories will be keen to win back the seat if he's not the Conservative candidate.
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Post by greenchristian on Mar 25, 2017 12:35:59 GMT
So how much attention will the media now give to a party with NO representatives in the Commons? I see they were still quick to wheel out failed wannabe MP Nuttall after this week's events...... So UKIP has now lost its Short Money, to add to its other woes. Carswell had complete control of that money, and wasn't bending the rules to share it with the rest of the party (which was probably a factor in certain other 'kippers wanting him out). So whilst losing it doesn't help them, that aspect of his defection isn't as bad for UKIP as it might appear on the surface.
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hedgehog
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Post by hedgehog on Mar 25, 2017 12:56:46 GMT
So UKIP has now lost its Short Money, to add to its other woes. Carswell had complete control of that money, and wasn't bending the rules to share it with the rest of the party (which was probably a factor in certain other 'kippers wanting him out). So whilst losing it doesn't help them, that aspect of his defection isn't as bad for UKIP as it might appear on the surface. Might this not have an impact on OFCOMS listing of major and minor parties, party broadcasts etc ?
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peterl
Green
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Post by peterl on Mar 25, 2017 13:00:55 GMT
I'd like to take this opportunity of calling on Mr. Carswell to do the honourable thing and resign.
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Post by carlton43 on Mar 25, 2017 13:07:12 GMT
Well done Douglas. An unfortunate episode that probably went wrong the day before you did it?
I hope you stand again at Clacton with tacit Conservative support and unopposed by them. Then we may hope for re-joining post 2020 or at 2025.
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hedgehog
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Post by hedgehog on Mar 25, 2017 13:08:21 GMT
I'd like to take this opportunity of calling on Mr. Carswell to do the honourable thing and resign. I think Douglas Carswell will be arguing the same case, next week as he did when he was a UKIP MP, he considers UKIP to have done its job, and he believes he played a big party into achieving that, I don't really see a need to resign here, his views and actions won't change, he simply thinks UKIP is no longer relevant.
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peterl
Green
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Post by peterl on Mar 25, 2017 13:11:50 GMT
I'd like to take this opportunity of calling on Mr. Carswell to do the honourable thing and resign. I think Douglas Carswell will be arguing the same case, next week as he did when he was a UKIP MP, he considers UKIP to have done its job, and he believes he played a big party into achieving that, I don't really see a need to resign here, his views and actions won't change, he simply thinks UKIP is no longer relevant. I think Carswell is no longer relevant now that he has left UKIP.
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Post by marksenior on Mar 25, 2017 13:15:40 GMT
UKIP are dead though the corpse is still tepid .
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hedgehog
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Post by hedgehog on Mar 25, 2017 13:30:49 GMT
I think Douglas Carswell will be arguing the same case, next week as he did when he was a UKIP MP, he considers UKIP to have done its job, and he believes he played a big party into achieving that, I don't really see a need to resign here, his views and actions won't change, he simply thinks UKIP is no longer relevant. I think Carswell is no longer relevant now that he has left UKIP. Douglas Carswell was elected under the UKIP banner to deliver UKIP manifesto promises, is he going to stand by and vote in accordance with the promises he was elected on, I think there is a good chance that apart from abandoning the party label, nothing else will change, im not sure if anything would be gained from resigning, I suspect that if he stood against an 'officical' UKIP candidate, he would still retain his seat.
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mboy
Liberal
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Post by mboy on Mar 25, 2017 13:47:50 GMT
He may not be crossing to the Tories now, but there must be a decent chance of him being adopted/given a clear run by them come 2020? I don't see that myself, I think the Tories will be keen to win back the seat if he's not the Conservative candidate. It makes little difference to the Tories voting numbers whether Carswell takes the whip or not, as he liked rebelling anyway. They won't be putting much effort here the unless they are flush with money, IMO.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2017 13:51:43 GMT
He could argue, whether correctly or not, that becoming an independent means he has no party machine around him so that is different to the justification for the UKIP by-election. It's quite thin ice though. He can't sing the praises of his voters being his employer only in specific circumstances.
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Post by politicalmatrix on Mar 25, 2017 14:40:20 GMT
I wonder what those useful idiots such as Evans who believed Carswell was oh so dedicated to the party think now.
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Post by politicalmatrix on Mar 25, 2017 14:43:19 GMT
Also, surely it's just a conincidence that Carswell's book is coming out in a weeks time?
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Post by Strontium Dog on Mar 25, 2017 14:49:19 GMT
Just thankful that the Prince of Tides isn't going to be wasting any more of our money on another pointless by-election.
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mboy
Liberal
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Post by mboy on Mar 25, 2017 15:00:12 GMT
I wonder what those useful idiots such as Evans who believed Carswell was oh so dedicated to the party think now. I suspect they will say, not unreasonably, that he was forced out of the party by arseholes.
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Post by curiousliberal on Mar 25, 2017 15:01:22 GMT
I don't see that myself, I think the Tories will be keen to win back the seat if he's not the Conservative candidate. Why risk putting up a candidate and potentially gifting UKIP a seat (they are more likely to challenge him because Clacton is a strong area for them regardless of his presence) by splitting the vote when they can deny that party a degree of legitimacy for the cost of one MP? It is quite possible UKIP will win no seats in 2020, and then the Conservatives will be in a stronger position to redefine themselves as the only 'major' party of the right.
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Crimson King
Lib Dem
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Post by Crimson King on Mar 25, 2017 15:48:52 GMT
I wonder what those useful idiots such as Evans who believed Carswell was oh so dedicated to the party think now. I suspect they will say, not unreasonably, that he was forced out of the party by arseholes. I felt that if Carswell had been expelled from UKIP, he would have been justified in not calling a by-election, although that hasn't happened he probably has a case for constructive dismissal
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Mar 25, 2017 15:54:36 GMT
Peter -- As you will know, Douglas Carswell has announced today that he is resigning from UKIP, to sit as an independent MP. He has said that he is doing this “cheerfully and amicably”. This is not a surprise. I was elected on a pledge to forge unity in the party, and have had many discussions with key players to try and make that happen, but it had become increasingly clear to me that some things were simply beyond reach. Douglas was genuinely committed to Brexit, but was never a comfortable Ukipper. On Monday, he had been due to meet with the National Executive Committee to answer various questions relating to longstanding issues, including published allegations that he had joined us in order to try to minimise Nigel Farage’s involvement in the Referendum. Douglas’s defection to UKIP in 2014, along with Mark Reckless, and the two by-elections we fought successfully for them, proved that UKIP was capable of getting members elected to Parliament – albeit, it was still a tough task (as I know only too well, personally). Our party has not benefited financially or organisationally from having Douglas in Westminster. With this in mind, his departure will make no difference to my ability or focus on delivering the reforms I promised when elected as Leader. As we redefine our mission and take up the next phase of our campaign to rebuild a confident, independent nation, Douglas would have been increasingly out of kilter with our members’ aspirations. We now have an opportunity to put behind us the most damaging internal conflict which has dogged us over the past year, and look forward with optimism and unity of purpose to the very real challenges of policing Brexit and further reforming the vigorous democracy of the UK. Kind regards Paul Nuttall Leader UKIP
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