Harry Hayfield
Green
Cavalier Gentleman (as in 17th century Cavalier)
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Post by Harry Hayfield on Feb 28, 2017 22:51:04 GMT
(Source: Daily Telegraph) Headline: UKIP's Carswell in secret talks to rejoin Conservatives Although on the front page, the main story is on Page 4 and there is a an editorial comment connected to it on Page 17
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peterl
Green
Monarchic Technocratic Localist
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Post by peterl on Feb 28, 2017 22:52:03 GMT
Because everyone wants a turncoat back.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2017 23:00:58 GMT
To be fair, Mr Farage wants him out.
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Post by Merseymike on Feb 28, 2017 23:15:59 GMT
And Carswell is a Conservative albeit something of a maverick.
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Crimson King
Lib Dem
Be nice to each other and sing in tune
Posts: 9,415
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Post by Crimson King on Mar 1, 2017 8:39:05 GMT
It is likely that he stops being a UKIP mp pretty soon, whether he likes it or not, so what then? He could sit as an independent, rejoin the Tories, or something between. I'd be astonished if some at least informal discussion of the possibilities hadnt taken place
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baloo
Conservative
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Post by baloo on Mar 1, 2017 9:14:14 GMT
He plotted with Ed Balls to defeat a Conservative government in a vote and lied about doing it; he then defected to a party with which he was obviously never going to be a good fit. We should leave him to his fate. He may keep winning in Clacton but I don't see him choosing to remain in the Commons as a back bench constituency MP for very long. He has far too high an opinion of himself.
Edit: Additionally leaving him to sort the mess out himself would be really funny
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neilm
Non-Aligned
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Post by neilm on Mar 1, 2017 10:45:08 GMT
He plotted with Ed Balls to defeat a Conservative government in a vote and lied about doing it; he then defected to a party with which he was obviously never going to be a good fit. We should leave him to his fate. He may keep winning in Clacton but I don't see him choosing to remain in the Commons as a back bench constituency MP for very long. He has far too high an opinion of himself. Edit: Additionally leaving him to sort the mess out himself would be really funny I remember Carswell saying on TV shortly after the last general election that he did not think that UKIP should be a party of "angry nativism". Given that angry nativism appears to be the core philosophy of UKIP, what on earth did he think that he had signed up for? Something a bit more libertarian. I was strongly attracted to UKIP at one stage due to that stance.
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johnr
Labour & Co-operative
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Post by johnr on Mar 1, 2017 11:27:48 GMT
What happens to the Short Money if Carswell ceases to be a UKIP MP?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2017 11:37:10 GMT
What happens to the Short Money if Carswell ceases to be a UKIP MP? Interesting question. The rationale for Short Money is that it is to assist opposition parties in relation to their parliamentary business. However, if UKIP no longer has any MPs, that justification clearly expires. I cannot see any counterargument based on the rules as I understand them.
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maxque
Non-Aligned
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Post by maxque on Mar 1, 2017 11:58:44 GMT
The motion resolution about Short Money (Opposition Parties (Financial Assistance)):
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neilm
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Post by neilm on Mar 1, 2017 14:16:50 GMT
Something a bit more libertarian. I was strongly attracted to UKIP at one stage due to that stance. Have UKIP ever been libertarian? Haven't they always been populist-nationalists, like British Trumpsters? At one stage, yes. We're talking 12 years ago in this case.
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Post by Merseymike on Mar 1, 2017 14:53:18 GMT
Have UKIP ever been libertarian? Haven't they always been populist-nationalists, like British Trumpsters? At one stage, yes. We're talking 12 years ago in this case. Alan Sked always appeared to be a libertarian
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2017 15:05:37 GMT
At one stage, yes. We're talking 12 years ago in this case. Alan Sked always appeared to be a libertarian In 1970 Alan stood as a Liberal candidate, and his break with the old Liberal Party was entirely about its fanatical support for the European project. In the 20 years since he stepped down as leader of UKIP he has consistently criticised it from a centre-left perspective. Alan was never at heart a politician, and through his stewardship he bears some responsibility for UKIP's failure to establish itself as "real" political party. In person he was entertainingly irascible and took disagreement - even of the mildest kind - very badly. I have fond memories of being beaten around the head by him at tiny public meetings after registering some minor difference of opinion.
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Post by tonygreaves on Mar 1, 2017 18:01:06 GMT
Does UKIP get any Short money? In a Council it would not be regarded as being a group.
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Post by tonygreaves on Mar 1, 2017 18:04:07 GMT
By the way I understand that you can't just defect to the Crossbenches - they make people wait a year before accepting them (or not). So there are a number of "non-affiliated" peers for that and other reasons.
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hedgehog
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Post by hedgehog on Mar 1, 2017 18:08:02 GMT
Aidan Rankin wrote an account of UKIP at that time, www.newstatesman.com/node/192632 he was involved in writing their manifesto in 2001, now I wouldn't have considered him in any way a libertarian.
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Post by tonygreaves on Mar 1, 2017 18:09:55 GMT
The Times reports that six Labour peers are “poised to defect”, having struck deals with rival parties. They are expected to become Crossbench peers, rather than formally sign up to another Party, but have “struck deals” with the Liberal Democrats and Tories. According to the paper, a Liberal Democrat source said: “We are expecting four to six peers to leave Labour in the next couple of months. We’ve agreed we’ll be putting our whipping cards in their pigeon holes.” They could of course form a group of their own. "Labour Peers disenchanted with the Leadership". Not sure what these "whipping cards" are. The weekly whip and all other polite requests* nowadays come by email and the like... (And I am at the moment waiting for the news of the pending vote on the EU citizens amendment on the EU Bill which a stream of Tory deadbeats seem to be filibustering...
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Post by greenchristian on Mar 1, 2017 19:01:46 GMT
Does UKIP get any Short money? In a Council it would not be regarded as being a group. Here's what the rules say: The motion resolution about Short Money (Opposition Parties (Financial Assistance)): Which means that both UKIP and the Greens receive short money, despite having only 1MP apiece. If Carswell is expelled from UKIP, they will not get any short money, even if they somehow manage to win a seat at a by-election between now and the next general election.
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neilm
Non-Aligned
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Post by neilm on Mar 1, 2017 22:58:41 GMT
Aidan Rankin wrote an account of UKIP at that time, www.newstatesman.com/node/192632 he was involved in writing their manifesto in 2001, now I wouldn't have considered him in any way a libertarian. No, but they were libertarian leaning, far more so than the Conservatives at the time.
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Post by LDCaerdydd on Mar 2, 2017 0:07:40 GMT
The Times reports that six Labour peers are “poised to defect”, having struck deals with rival parties. They are expected to become Crossbench peers, rather than formally sign up to another Party, but have “struck deals” with the Liberal Democrats and Tories. According to the paper, a Liberal Democrat source said: “We are expecting four to six peers to leave Labour in the next couple of months. We’ve agreed we’ll be putting our whipping cards in their pigeon holes.” They could of course form a group of their own. "Labour Peers disenchanted with the Leadership". Not sure what these "whipping cards" are. The weekly whip and all other polite requests* nowadays come by email and the like... (And I am at the moment waiting for the news of the pending vote on the EU citizens amendment on the EU Bill which a stream of Tory deadbeats seem to be filibustering... If there's no email, there's no trail. Do all LD Peers utilise email? I would imagine manny whipped Con, Lab (and assume LD) wouldn't have a clue how to receive an email.
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