middyman
Conservative
"The problem with socialism is that, sooner or later, you run out of other people's money."
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Post by middyman on Nov 1, 2019 9:49:25 GMT
They are closer to you on Brexit! I lost the tongs with which to handle it some while ago!
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
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Post by The Bishop on Nov 1, 2019 10:40:54 GMT
Whoever "leant on" the Guardian if indeed that happened at all, the fact remains that "Best For Britain" is a crock of s***e.
Repeatedly recommending a vote for the LibDems in seats where they *lost their deposit* two years ago - the polls haven't changed THAT much.
The time to use websites like that is during the later stages of the campaign anyway.
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Post by greenchristian on Nov 1, 2019 10:47:41 GMT
Whoever "leant on" the Guardian if indeed that happened at all, the fact remains that "Best For Britain" is a crock of s***e. Repeatedly recommending a vote for the LibDems in seats where they *lost their deposit* two years ago - the polls haven't changed THAT much. The time to use websites like that is during the later stages of the campaign anyway. And, of course, in any constituency where tactical voting is likely to make a difference, anybody who's paying attention should be well aware of it from the stuff that's coming from their door, without needing to use such sites.
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mboy
Liberal
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Post by mboy on Nov 1, 2019 10:57:47 GMT
Whoever "leant on" the Guardian if indeed that happened at all, the fact remains that "Best For Britain" is a crock of s***e. Repeatedly recommending a vote for the LibDems in seats where they *lost their deposit* two years ago - the polls haven't changed THAT much. The polls have changed more in the last 2 years than in any other time I can remember. Labour are down nearly 20% and the Lib Dems have nearly trippled.
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The Bishop
Labour
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Post by The Bishop on Nov 1, 2019 11:00:47 GMT
The polls changed almost that much during the 2010 *campaign* (and then to some degree back again, just showing why they should be treated with caution)
Even if you accept present polling as reliable, it still doesn't mean the LibDems have any hopes in seats where they LOST THEIR DEPOSIT in 2017.
Why is this so difficult to understand.
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mboy
Liberal
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Post by mboy on Nov 1, 2019 11:14:17 GMT
The polls changed almost that much during the 2010 *campaign* (and then to some degree back again, just showing why they should be treated with caution) Even if you accept present polling as reliable, it still doesn't mean the LibDems have any hopes in seats where they LOST THEIR DEPOSIT in 2017. Why is this so difficult to understand. Bish, stop being a moron - we got 5% in 2017 in some seats we HELD until 2015.
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The Bishop
Labour
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Post by The Bishop on Nov 1, 2019 11:16:10 GMT
A handful, which are not the norm - and not the seats I am referring to anyway.
I genuinely can't believe that you are actually defending this heap of crap.
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neilm
Non-Aligned
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Post by neilm on Nov 1, 2019 11:25:19 GMT
Berger, Gyimah, Lee, Smith and Umunna have all carpetbagged from their current constituencies to more winnable ones. Berger and Smith are particularly egregious. Berger's primary reason for fleeing was to escape the constant threats of violence against her. When you're a mother of 2 young kids, that ought to be enough in anyone's book. Then she should step down entirely. There are some of us on here who knew Luciana Berger 15 or so years ago, and more: this move is hardly out of character and if she didn't have children would be getting scoffed at and viewed in a totally different light, although she does actually live in the seat. She was one of those NUS types in chinos who had a pager and were always looking over your shoulder to see whether someone better to talk to was coming along. I didn't rate her then and I don't rate her now.
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mboy
Liberal
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Post by mboy on Nov 1, 2019 11:29:37 GMT
Yeh, women who get abused in public jobs should quit. How very 1960s of you.
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Post by Merseymike on Nov 1, 2019 12:21:30 GMT
Berger's primary reason for fleeing was to escape the constant threats of violence against her. When you're a mother of 2 young kids, that ought to be enough in anyone's book. Then she should step down entirely. There are some of us on here who knew Luciana Berger 15 or so years ago, and more: this move is hardly out of character and if she didn't have children would be getting scoffed at and viewed in a totally different light, although she does actually live in the seat. She was one of those NUS types in chinos who had a pager and were always looking over your shoulder to see whether someone better to talk to was coming along. I didn't rate her then and I don't rate her now. Exactly my experience of her I came across her when we were looking after a phone bank in the interest of Ed Miliband's leadership campaign. I can honestly say that I have never come across an MP who best reflects the term 'airhead' - and was clearly, as you say, utterly disinterested in anyone who couldn't assist her climb the greasy pole
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Post by polaris on Nov 1, 2019 13:43:11 GMT
The polls changed almost that much during the 2010 *campaign* (and then to some degree back again, just showing why they should be treated with caution) Even if you accept present polling as reliable, it still doesn't mean the LibDems have any hopes in seats where they LOST THEIR DEPOSIT in 2017. Why is this so difficult to understand. We are in extremely volatile political times and in many places, more recent intelligence such as local and Euro election results, and opinion polling, is a more credible guide to what might happen than the results of the 2017 election. Two and a half years ago the LibDems were marooned on 6% of the vote. This year they gained 700 councillors. Meanwhile, Labour is going backwards in every type of election and appears to have lost between a third and a half of its support since the last election.
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
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Post by The Bishop on Nov 1, 2019 13:57:44 GMT
We are in volatile times, yes. But even in 1997 Labour didn't win seats where they got less than 10% in 1992 - there are limits.
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Post by curiousliberal on Nov 1, 2019 14:23:30 GMT
We are in volatile times, yes. But even in 1997 Labour didn't win seats where they got less than 10% in 1992 - there are limits. Aren't the new limits defined by the scale of the Lib Dem collapse and the SNP surge of '15?
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iain
Lib Dem
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Post by iain on Nov 1, 2019 14:33:07 GMT
We are in volatile times, yes. But even in 1997 Labour didn't win seats where they got less than 10% in 1992 - there are limits. That is not the same thing at all. Your vote increased by 25% in 1997, whereas ours could go up by about 250%.
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mboy
Liberal
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Post by mboy on Nov 1, 2019 14:44:41 GMT
Yeh, women who get abused in public jobs should quit. How very 1960s of you. This BTW has been an interesting feature which nobody wishes to comment on, female politicians who are about to get found out by the electorate suddenly coming over all fainting maiden and being unfit for office by reason of their sex. Worth noting that the first and most high profile to pull the stunt was Ruth Davidson, the most successful A Lister parachuted in pol of her time, who was never, ever going to be FM and had enough nous to know it and had to get clear before the inevitable trough result. It can now be argued coherently that women may not be fit for political office, because they are just too nice and a host of female ex-politicians of all parties (but all Remainers) can be lined up to support the ludicrous contention. The contention however is bollocks. Strong women of all parties will still be here, ignoring the abuse and weak men of all parties will be winnowed out and will wonder why nobody bothers to sympathize when they moan how beastly everyone was to them. Man who's spent years going on about how destructive Labour anti-Semitism is, suddenly decides it's no big deal when discussing how it affects an actual real person...
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neilm
Non-Aligned
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Post by neilm on Nov 1, 2019 16:45:33 GMT
Yeh, women who get abused in public jobs should quit. How very 1960s of you. The point here is that the abuse is online. It's going to happen whether she is an MP in Liverpool or London or Edinburgh or Cornwall. It shouldn't happen at all but moving constituencies won't stop it: if anything, it might make it worse because this very specific move looks so cynical (assuming she gets elected). I'd be saying the same if this was a male MP. I've got no track record on here, anywhere else online or in real life of holding MPs to different levels of my ire based on gender. I'm actually personally aware of how this individual operates which has coloured my view on this occasion but I'd have an identical opinion if this was a bloke.
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mboy
Liberal
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Post by mboy on Nov 1, 2019 16:50:02 GMT
Not it's not all online, some of the nasty stuff has been from Momentum loons in the local party, and that's what she's fleeing from. It's fair to say there will be less anti-Semitic Momentum loons in Golders Green than there are in Liverpool.
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Post by Merseymike on Nov 1, 2019 17:07:27 GMT
No. They have quite rightly criticised her appalling Israel-right-or-wrong views. Agree with neilm on this issue And we have both had the misfortune to meet her
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Post by gwynthegriff on Nov 1, 2019 17:33:20 GMT
Berger, Gyimah, Lee, Smith and Umunna have all carpetbagged from their current constituencies to more winnable ones. Berger and Smith are particularly egregious. Umunna picked a worse constituency, and it's not all that clear why. Perhaps he knew Streatham well enough to know he couldn't win there, but couldn't be sure about Cities of W&L, or perhaps he felt hesitant to displace our Streatham PPC for some reason. Or perhaps he has colleagues and friends who remain in the CLP?
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mboy
Liberal
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Post by mboy on Nov 1, 2019 18:02:39 GMT
It's fair to say there will be less anti-Semitic Momentum loons in Golders Green than there are in Liverpool. I doubt it but there will be probably be fewer When grammar Nazi-ing, must get grammar correct
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