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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Oct 29, 2019 23:44:01 GMT
Vaizey is really a pompous, snivelling little cunt isn’t he? If he were made of chocolate, he'd have eaten himself by now.
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Oct 29, 2019 23:44:39 GMT
Current voting strengths of parties:
Conservative 297 Labour 242 Scottish National Party 35 Independents 22 Liberal Democrats 20 Ulster Democratic Unionist Party 10 (Sinn Féin 7) The Independent Group for Change 5 Plaid Cymru 4 The Independents 2 Green Party 1
The Speaker and Deputies 4 Vacant seat 1
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Post by 🏴☠️ Neath West 🏴☠️ on Oct 29, 2019 23:44:47 GMT
Harrington is one - but I think he's standing down anyway? I really dislike Greg Clark as well Benyon, Burt and Soames have previously stated their intention to stand down as well. Farage will surely jump on the decision to readmit them, but realistically his party are not going to win the election, and switching from the Tories to the Brexit Party in this election is only going to make Brexit less likely. I do wonder whether the restoration of the whip and these individuals doing the decent thing and retiring is not entirely coincidental.
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mboy
Liberal
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Posts: 22,378
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Post by mboy on Oct 29, 2019 23:54:42 GMT
Stephen Lloyd from Ind to Lib Dem Had no choice if he wants to be re-elected. Has his stance pleased both sides or pissed everyone off though? His principled stance has earned respect from across the spectrum, with the exception of FBPE loons. He will win Eastbourne.
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Post by yellowperil on Oct 29, 2019 23:57:33 GMT
Stephen Lloyd from Ind to Lib Dem Had no choice if he wants to be re-elected. Has his stance pleased both sides or pissed everyone off though? I thi nk you may misunderstand what you call his stance. Throughout he made it quite clear he personally was a remainer. He had however made a promise to his constituents as to how he would vote and he has stuck to that. Now he comes to seek re-election he can with great relief remove himself from that commitment and fight without having to repeat what was possibly a rather foolish promise.If that means he loses , so be it. But he has been true to his principles throughout.
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Post by curiousliberal on Oct 30, 2019 0:34:53 GMT
Had no choice if he wants to be re-elected. Has his stance pleased both sides or pissed everyone off though? His principled stance has earned respect from across the spectrum, with the exception of FBPE loons. He will win Eastbourne. You're describing what should happen. I would only feel very confident in his victory if a BxP candidate stands - you can bet Labour will be running to the Europhilian of him here.
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Richard Allen
Banned
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Post by Richard Allen on Oct 30, 2019 0:39:34 GMT
Benyon, Burt and Soames have previously stated their intention to stand down as well. Farage will surely jump on the decision to readmit them, but realistically his party are not going to win the election, and switching from the Tories to the Brexit Party in this election is only going to make Brexit less likely. I do wonder whether the restoration of the whip and these individuals doing the decent thing and retiring is not entirely coincidental. If that is the case then one wonders why Ken Clarke has not had the whip restored. Here is a man who has served close to 50 years in parliament and in ministerial office for 22 years under 3 Conservative Prime Ministers, and as a whip under a fourth. He has held two great offices of state and had a very good record as Chancellor of the Exchequer. Yes his views on Europe have put him at odds with many on the Tory right but he has never been particularly obnoxious about it and unlike Heath, Howe and Heseltine there has never been much personal animosity against him by those on the right of the party, perhaps in part because of his personality. Furthermore, despite his very strong pro-European views he has voted for both May and Johnson's deals to leave. Given that he is retiring not restoring the whip to him strikes me as an extremely petty act and the only possible valid reason I can think of is that the offer was made and that he turned it down.
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mondialito
Labour
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Posts: 4,924
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Post by mondialito on Oct 30, 2019 0:47:53 GMT
His principled stance has earned respect from across the spectrum, with the exception of FBPE loons. He will win Eastbourne. You're describing what should happen. I would only feel very confident in his victory if a BxP candidate stands - you can bet Labour will be running to the Europhilian of him here. Perhaps, but we won't putting much effort into somewhere that isn't on our radar.
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Post by greatkingrat on Oct 30, 2019 1:24:49 GMT
All the MPs who voted against the Letwin amendment have had the whip returned. Those who supported Letwin haven't.
The exception is Rory Stewart who did vote against Letwin but he seems to have already burned his bridges by running for London mayor as an independent.
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Oct 30, 2019 6:53:44 GMT
I do wonder whether the restoration of the whip and these individuals doing the decent thing and retiring is not entirely coincidental. If that is the case then one wonders why Ken Clarke has not had the whip restored. Here is a man who has served close to 50 years in parliament and in ministerial office for 22 years under 3 Conservative Prime Ministers, and as a whip under a fourth. He has held two great offices of state and had a very good record as Chancellor of the Exchequer. Yes his views on Europe have put him at odds with many on the Tory right but he has never been particularly obnoxious about it and unlike Heath, Howe and Heseltine there has never been much personal animosity against him by those on the right of the party, perhaps in part because of his personality. Furthermore, despite his very strong pro-European views he has voted for both May and Johnson's deals to leave. Given that he is retiring not restoring the whip to him strikes me as an extremely petty act and the only possible valid reason I can think of is that the offer was made and that he turned it down. I have some sympathy with your overall point, but I don't agree with the highlighted part. Back in 1997 I was actually in favour of a Clarke leadership as a means of effecting a stronger recovery at the following election and in spite of his well known views on Europe. By 2001 though (when I actually formed part of the ultimate electorate) he had become far too bombastic on the subject and was utterly disdainful of those (the majority in the party) who took a different view from him which is why he was beaten by somebody who was very obviously not up to the job. He is not as objectionable as Heseltine certainly ( a low bar if I ever saw one) and in some respects has an agreeable personality and positions on other issues (eg his pro-smoking stance etc) but he has absolutely set himself as perhaps the premier opponent of the Eurosceptic tendency in the party for the last two decades. I think you need to consider how readmitting him would look to wavering Leave voters (ie those wavering between the Conservatives and the Brexit party) and indeed how it would be 'weaponised' by Farage etc (the readmission of the ten is being done so anyway and not without some effect if my Twitter feed is any guide, but most of these are nonentities - it's precisely Clarke's stature which you describe which means that in his case the effect would be magnified)
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ColinJ
Labour
Living in the Past
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Post by ColinJ on Oct 30, 2019 7:49:31 GMT
At least three of those penitent Tories are in seats that are likely to be Tory/LDem toss-ups: Watford, Wimbledon and Winchester... which should be interesting... That's a very punchy prediction, although tbf Watford Tories have been an absolute shambles over recent years, only kept afloat by Harrington's financial support (not inconsiderable). Isn't Harrington retiring at the election anyway? (see: www.watfordobserver.co.uk/news/17869240.watford-mp-richard-harrington-announces-will-stand-next-election/ ). So what was the point in restoring the whip? Labour are nearly 20,000 votes ahead of the Lib Dems here.
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Post by pragmaticidealist on Oct 30, 2019 7:56:08 GMT
Amber Rudd is also re-joining the Tories.
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ColinJ
Labour
Living in the Past
Posts: 1,966
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Post by ColinJ on Oct 30, 2019 7:57:08 GMT
BBC reporting that Amber Rudd is talking to the 'powers that be' in the Tory party about rejoining.
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mboy
Liberal
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Post by mboy on Oct 30, 2019 7:57:42 GMT
His principled stance has earned respect from across the spectrum, with the exception of FBPE loons. He will win Eastbourne. You're describing what should happen. I would only feel very confident in his victory if a BxP candidate stands - you can bet Labour will be running to the Europhilian of him here. A read of the open comments under his Facebook post (which for most MPs is a warzone) informed what I posted...
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Post by Merseymike on Oct 30, 2019 9:07:13 GMT
His principled stance has earned respect from across the spectrum, with the exception of FBPE loons. He will win Eastbourne. You're describing what should happen. I would only feel very confident in his victory if a BxP candidate stands - you can bet Labour will be running to the Europhilian of him here. Labour aren't in the running in Eastbourne and the small Labour vote there is accustomed to voting tactically. I can't see why a Labour voter would be fazed by his stance on Brexit anyway as it's closer to Labour than his own party.
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Post by Merseymike on Oct 30, 2019 9:09:21 GMT
All the MPs who voted against the Letwin amendment have had the whip returned. Those who supported Letwin haven't. The exception is Rory Stewart who did vote against Letwin but he seems to have already burned his bridges by running for London mayor as an independent. He has resigned from the Tory party. So why would he want the whip back? His critique of parliamentary politics is hard to disagree with.
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iang
Lib Dem
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Post by iang on Oct 30, 2019 13:07:18 GMT
Stephen Lloyd from Ind to Lib Dem Had no choice if he wants to be re-elected. Has his stance pleased both sides or pissed everyone off though? As far as I can tell, most people in the party understood the context of his distancing himself, in relation to the situation in Eastbourne, and hoped that there would be a time when he would feel himself able to take the whip again. AFAIK, he always remained a member of the party
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Post by tonygreaves on Oct 30, 2019 16:53:12 GMT
Well why am I surprised. I would not have had him back.
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mboy
Liberal
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Post by mboy on Oct 30, 2019 18:47:48 GMT
Well why am I surprised. I would not have had him back. Fortunately you have little influence in these matters.
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Post by tonyhill on Oct 30, 2019 18:53:20 GMT
I have to say I'm a bit shocked by tonygreaves' response. If more of our MPs had adhered to the pledges they made to the electorate in 2010 we might not have descended quite so far into the abyss in 2015.
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