Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2019 16:12:31 GMT
A friend of mine who has been a lib dem as long ive known him has tweeted he's going to sleep on it and decide whether he will continue to be a lib dem member in the morning. Genuinely shocked by this. I didn't quite appreciate the push back this would receive
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Post by ccoleman on Sept 3, 2019 16:13:21 GMT
I can think of one Lib Dem candidate in 2017 who voted against it when he was an MP. If you mean Farron, he voted for it in the first two stages, and abstained in the third partly on the basis of no exemptions for religious ministers, but partly (he says primarily) on the basis of transgender people not being able to enter a gay marriage after a straight one, or a straight one after a gay one, because the spousal veto allows their ex to debar them from one. Greg Mulholland abstained. I’m gay and Lee’s abstention on same-sex marriage is of very little consequence to me. If the Liberal Democrats want to be taken seriously as a force in British politics then they’re probably going to have to accept people who don’t always align with them on every issue, much like Labour and the Conservatives do. Wasn’t it 25 or so Labour MPs who voted against same-sex marriage, plus further abstentions?
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Post by Forfarshire Conservative on Sept 3, 2019 16:23:51 GMT
As suspected, the party's not exactly upset by Lee's departure. This is a not untypical reaction.
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Post by curiousliberal on Sept 3, 2019 16:25:37 GMT
A friend of mine who has been a lib dem as long ive known him has tweeted he's going to sleep on it and decide whether he will continue to be a lib dem member in the morning. Genuinely shocked by this. I didn't quite appreciate the push back this would receive Same here. One would have thought people who've been members for 4 years+ leaving over this might have left over previous anti-liberal marks during the coalition (while I would argue that it was broadly socially liberal, there were a few black marks, and I can't see this defection as a mark any blacker than, say, secret courts).
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mboy
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Post by mboy on Sept 3, 2019 16:30:54 GMT
Indeed, but absolutism and zealotry have increased greatly in the Lib Dems and all parties recently, a feature of contemporary life. Drawing social and moral red lines all over the place is the new thing, and of course it’s why it’s now almost impossible to put together a majority movement for so many things. As some point, people are going to have to realise that nobody gets what they want all the time in any functioning pluralistic society.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2019 16:30:56 GMT
Ive just been talking with another lib dem friend he thinks this is factional
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Sept 3, 2019 16:32:13 GMT
Of the 22 Labour MPs who voted against only six are in the Commons now and two of them go next time with a third likely to be deselected
Of the 14 abstainers only 3 actually abstained. The others were all legitimately absent.
But it shouldn't be viewed as a party issue anyway
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Post by tonyhill on Sept 3, 2019 16:32:26 GMT
I really don't understand why people would get so hot under the collar about something like this, but maybe it's because I come from an era where the vast majority of the people in the Party were (as I perceived it then) to the right of me. If twenty Tory MPs decided to defect to the LibDems I might feel seriously uneasy, but it is not as though one person joining the Party is going to change it's policy stance on anything. The only time in the past 52 years that I did not renew my membership (for a year) was over an adopted policy, and history proved me right and the Party wrong.
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Post by curiousliberal on Sept 3, 2019 16:36:32 GMT
Ive just been talking with another lib dem friend he thinks this is factional And who leads the anti-Swinson faction? Layla Moran tweeted a welcome message to Philip Lee, as did Ed Davey. Genuinely curious, as her leadership has been subpar IMO and one is bound to spring up sooner or later.
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Richard Allen
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Post by Richard Allen on Sept 3, 2019 16:37:39 GMT
I am less than convinced that it was good strategy to allow this self righteous little twerp to defect at a time of his choosing. It has been obvious for months that he would defect and the timing should have been taken out of his hands.
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Sept 3, 2019 16:40:05 GMT
Tell you what, if a few years ago you'd said that the Lib Dems would acquire a bloke in favour of mandatory HIV tests for immigrants, and another in favour of national service, you'd have been laughed out of town!
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Sept 3, 2019 16:41:38 GMT
Ive just been talking with another lib dem friend he thinks this is factional And who leads the anti-Swinson faction? Layla Moran tweeted a welcome message to Philip Lee, as did Ed Davey. Genuinely curious, as her leadership has been subpar IMO and one is bound to spring up sooner or later. That's what Chuka Ummuna is for. Swinson is seriously dire. She won't last.
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Post by LDCaerdydd on Sept 3, 2019 16:43:34 GMT
As suspected, the party's not exactly upset by Lee's departure. This is a not untypical reaction. Yet you were content to have him in your party for almost 30 years and in your parliamentary party for nine?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2019 16:44:53 GMT
As suspected, the party's not exactly upset by Lee's departure. This is a not untypical reaction. I suspect most Conservative members would agree with him on that matter, actually.
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Post by curiousliberal on Sept 3, 2019 16:45:48 GMT
As suspected, the party's not exactly upset by Lee's departure. This is a not untypical reaction. Yet you were content to have him in your party for almost 30 years and in your parliamentary party for nine? It is fair to say that this particular iteration of the LGBT+ Conservatives may not have been in the party for the almost 30 years prior, a good deal of which were spent advocating against them. If Johnson does run on culture war issues, however, this tweet may end up ageing badly, as most political tweets are wont to.
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Post by BossMan on Sept 3, 2019 17:10:03 GMT
Well he's clearly put a great deal of thought into the timing and manner of his defection. This was designed to attract maximum attention. I wonder if he had a quiet word with his new colleagues in advance.
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Post by notabrummie on Sept 3, 2019 17:13:23 GMT
Lib Dems so deserve Philip Lee. . Both are neither Liberal or Democratic.
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J.G.Harston
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Post by J.G.Harston on Sept 3, 2019 17:23:52 GMT
Any specific actions in mind? Trying to apply the handbrake to that bus which is about to fly off the cliff. Always a dangerous thing to do to a vehicle in motion, you lose all control. I presume you've never had driving lessons, otherwise you would have been taught that an emergency brake is a *procedure*, not a control, which requires the rapid firm stamping of both clutch and brake *foot* pedals, aiming to hit clutch fractionally before brake. With automatic transmission it's slightly easier, rapid firm stamping of the brake *foot* pedal. Applying the handbrake while moving is an almost guarantee of disaster.
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Post by 🏴☠️ Neath West 🏴☠️ on Sept 3, 2019 17:26:43 GMT
Trying to apply the handbrake to that bus which is about to fly off the cliff. Always a dangerous thing to do to a vehicle in motion, you lose all control. I presume you've never had driving lessons, otherwise you would have been taught that an emergency brake is a *procedure*, not a control, which requires the rapid firm stamping of both clutch and brake *foot* pedals, aiming to hit clutch fractionally before brake. With automatic transmission it's slightly easier, rapid firm stamping of the brake *foot* pedal. Applying the handbrake while moving is an almost guarantee of disaster. This is why trams are better. Their emergency brakes turn their wheels into electromagnets. I was on a tram once on Wellesley Road in Croydon when some idiot decided to run in front of it. They don't half stop on a sixpence when necessary!
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Post by Forfarshire Conservative on Sept 3, 2019 17:32:30 GMT
As suspected, the party's not exactly upset by Lee's departure. This is a not untypical reaction. Yet you were content to have him in your party for almost 30 years and in your parliamentary party for nine? My posts will reveal that I wasn't content with him. There's also a piece on Twitter by several journalists revealing that within six months of his 2010 election he was disliked due to his gross egotism. So, I think it's clear that people weren't too happy with him, neither was his CCA, but disliking him isn't a reason to get rid of him. Brexit provided that justification and now he's gone before he was pushed.
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