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Post by pragmaticidealist on Sept 3, 2019 17:32:35 GMT
Like someone such as Shaun Woodward, the defection will almost certainly prove to be the highest-profile moment of his career.
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Post by Forfarshire Conservative on Sept 3, 2019 17:36:10 GMT
As suspected, the party's not exactly upset by Lee's departure. This is a not untypical reaction. I suspect most Conservative members would agree with him on that matter, actually. Yeah probably. I provided that because it was the most prominently liked in my feed. There's lots of example's of people's relief, that's just one.
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Post by Strontium Dog on Sept 3, 2019 17:44:54 GMT
Trying to apply the handbrake to that bus which is about to fly off the cliff. Always a dangerous thing to do to a vehicle in motion, you lose all control. I presume you've never had driving lessons, otherwise you would have been taught that an emergency brake is a *procedure*, not a control, which requires the rapid firm stamping of both clutch and brake *foot* pedals, aiming to hit clutch fractionally before brake. With automatic transmission it's slightly easier, rapid firm stamping of the brake *foot* pedal. Applying the handbrake while moving is an almost guarantee of disaster. Never heard of a handbrake turn? It's moot anyway, because I wouldn't get on a bus that was headed off a cliff in the first place.
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Post by Andrew_S on Sept 3, 2019 17:48:58 GMT
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mboy
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Post by mboy on Sept 3, 2019 17:54:52 GMT
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Post by Forfarshire Conservative on Sept 3, 2019 17:56:21 GMT
If he goes at the election does he get more money?
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Post by thirdchill on Sept 3, 2019 18:05:05 GMT
Good start to Phillip Lee's tenure with the Lib Dems: A considered response would be an inaccurate description. Well quite. It is certainly possible to think that Philip Lee is not particularly well suited to the lib dems and that trying to get anti-brexiteers on board regardless of their illiberal views elsewhere is a mistake, whilst at the same time seeing this as a complete overreaction and hissy fit. Surely the best course of action would have been just to encourage him to sit as an independent and support them from there?
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Post by finsobruce on Sept 3, 2019 18:07:38 GMT
If he goes at the election does he get more money? Ill health grant against much reduced 'redundancy' payment. Not sure.
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J.G.Harston
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Post by J.G.Harston on Sept 3, 2019 18:13:32 GMT
Always a dangerous thing to do to a vehicle in motion, you lose all control. I presume you've never had driving lessons, otherwise you would have been taught that an emergency brake is a *procedure*, not a control, which requires the rapid firm stamping of both clutch and brake *foot* pedals, aiming to hit clutch fractionally before brake. With automatic transmission it's slightly easier, rapid firm stamping of the brake *foot* pedal. Applying the handbrake while moving is an almost guarantee of disaster. Never heard of a handbrake turn? It's moot anyway, because I wouldn't get on a bus that was headed off a cliff in the first place. That's not using the handbrake to bring the vehicle to a halt, but to execute a barely-controllable change of direction. Requires huge skill and has great potential to result in disaster.
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Post by andrewp on Sept 3, 2019 18:21:22 GMT
A considered response would be an inaccurate description. Well quite. It is certainly possible to think that Philip Lee is not particularly well suited to the lib dems and that trying to get anti-brexiteers on board regardless of their illiberal views elsewhere is a mistake, whilst at the same time seeing this as a complete overreaction and hissy fit. Surely the best course of action would have been just to encourage him to sit as an independent and support them from there? That’s the problem with the all consuming Brexit issue. It’s throwing people together based on one ( atmittedly major) issue. If and when Brexit is resolved I think some people would now look at who they are now sitting with in a whole new light. Particularly the Lib Dem’s risk having a right ragbag of people.
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Post by lancastrian on Sept 3, 2019 18:29:12 GMT
Of the 22 Labour MPs who voted against only six are in the Commons now and two of them go next time with a third likely to be deselected Who of those four is going to be deselected? The 2016 list rates them at worst neutral on Corbyn.
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Post by andrew111 on Sept 3, 2019 18:41:54 GMT
www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/why-we-should-screen-immigrants-for-hiv-and-hepatitis-b-9102435.htmlWhat Lee has to say about his amendment. Calling HIV screening homophobic is frankly ridiculous since it is just as much a heterosexual disease in many parts of the world as homosexual. It would only be xenophobic if restricted to certain nationalities, religions or ethnic groups. I would regard it as illiberal if decisions on whether to accept an immigrant was based on it. Since the amendment was not tabled or debated for lack of time that is not clear, but the tone of the article does not suggest that was the intention.
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Post by Adam in Stroud on Sept 3, 2019 18:42:41 GMT
A considered response would be an inaccurate description. Well quite. It is certainly possible to think that Philip Lee is not particularly well suited to the lib dems and that trying to get anti-brexiteers on board regardless of their illiberal views elsewhere is a mistake, whilst at the same time seeing this as a complete overreaction and hissy fit. Surely the best course of action would have been just to encourage him to sit as an independent and support them from there? You have to look at the particular circumstances of the govt minority being one and therefore the leverage gained by having him take our whip; and, bluntly, the fact that it's by no means certain that he will still be an MP after a GE which may be imminent. I said in the Yellow Room that notwithstanding his voting record I wanted him on-board purely to take out Boris' majority at time when that is crucial. Going Indy would I suppose have been a compromise but we are also trying to position ourselves as a party that is back in the game and in some ways any defection not to us is damaging, as happened when the Tiggers started up.
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Post by Merseymike on Sept 3, 2019 18:44:14 GMT
Of the 22 Labour MPs who voted against only six are in the Commons now and two of them go next time with a third likely to be deselected Who of those four is going to be deselected? The 2016 list rates them at worst neutral on Corbyn. That's not the only reason people get deselected! I hear Mary Glindon is under some pressure.
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Sept 3, 2019 18:53:01 GMT
Ignoring the fact that Jones probably Googled Lee's voting record this evening, I suspect this shows that Labour know that there has to be a full attack against defectors to the Lib Dems, even if they aren't their own.
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Post by Adam in Stroud on Sept 3, 2019 18:56:22 GMT
FWIW I'm not the most plugged in on social media but on the LD Newbies FB Group the post announcing his defection has 459 likes and about 80 comments, overwhelmingly positive, whereas the post raising doubts about his record on LGBT+ had about 30 likes and 4 comments.
I think Mark Pack's Rule 1 on defections probably applies: Also Rule 3:
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2019 18:58:57 GMT
FWIW I'm not the most plugged in on social media but on the LD Newbies FB Group the post announcing his defection has 459 likes and about 80 comments, overwhelmingly positive, whereas the post raising doubts about his record on LGBT+ had about 30 likes and 4 comments. I think Mark Pack's Rule 1 on defections probably applies: Also Rule 3: Rule 1 is a paraphrase of Clemenceau - "Un traître est un homme politique qui quitte son parti pour s'inscrire a un autre. Par contre, un converti est un homme politique qui quitte son parti pour s'inscrire au votre".
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Post by thirdchill on Sept 3, 2019 21:35:40 GMT
People are assuming Phillip Lee hasn't changed any other of his views in any way over the last few years. Maybe not much of an assumption but an assumption nevertheless. I think people here are a bit cynical of defectors. And if you look at defections threads and the *reasons*, then you will understand why.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2019 21:43:24 GMT
Ive just been talking with another lib dem friend he thinks this is factional And who leads the anti-Swinson faction? Layla Moran tweeted a welcome message to Philip Lee, as did Ed Davey. Genuinely curious, as her leadership has been subpar IMO and one is bound to spring up sooner or later. i think he meant the lefty members rather than the mps
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2019 21:43:55 GMT
Like someone such as Shaun Woodward, the defection will almost certainly prove to be the highest-profile moment of his career. wasn't woodward made a minister?
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