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Post by Pete Whitehead on Jul 28, 2019 17:37:08 GMT
Those with long memories will recall that Emma Nicholson (another Devon MP) defected from the Tories to the Lib Dems in 1995. You remember it ?
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Post by tonyhill on Jul 28, 2019 19:25:20 GMT
Emma defected back to the Tories many years later (2016?) having given the Liberal Democrats many years of valuable service, despite disagreeing with the Party line on Iraq.
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Post by yellowperil on Jul 28, 2019 19:49:38 GMT
Those with long memories will recall that Emma Nicholson (another Devon MP) defected from the Tories to the Lib Dems in 1995. You remember it ? I remember sitting with Emma over lunch shortly after she came over, answering all her questions- she really did work very hard at learning about the party. She contributed a lot to the party while she was with us, but of course in the end it was the Iraq issue that was critical for her and she had a genuinely liberal view of it but for very good reasons it was different from that of the party.Nevertheless we managed to find ways of overcoming those differences and her point of view was often different from the mainstream Lib Dem view on a number of policy issues but for years we were for two decades able to accommodate those differences which were within the range of Lib Dem policy agreements and as far as I know always amicable. Incidentally she had been more than another Tory MP, she had been a vice-chairman of the party.
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mboy
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Post by mboy on Jul 28, 2019 20:01:20 GMT
Those with long memories will recall that Emma Nicholson (another Devon MP) defected from the Tories to the Lib Dems in 1995. Then defected back with a peerage in her pocket. Bit harsh. She gave us 21 years, which is one more than Churchill managed. It was her support for grammar schools and our party's immediate desire to overturn the referendum that pushed her out, not any careerism.
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Jul 28, 2019 20:46:23 GMT
She seems to have gone full-scale No Deal Brexit now, though ...
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middyman
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Post by middyman on Jul 28, 2019 20:51:44 GMT
She seems to have gone full-scale No Deal Brexit now, though ... Splendid! Or should that be âsplendudeâ?đ¤
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Post by gwynthegriff on Jul 28, 2019 21:28:47 GMT
She seems to have gone full-scale No Deal Brexit now, though ... Which is intellectually and politically robust. Rather less economically robust I fear. But ought to be an acceptable view within the Lib Dems.
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Jul 28, 2019 23:23:55 GMT
Well, it's a view absolutely never heard - the LibDems are now above all else the stop Brexit, stay in the EU party.
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Post by Strontium Dog on Jul 29, 2019 1:00:37 GMT
Well, it's a view absolutely never heard - the LibDems are now above all else the stop Brexit, stay in the EU party. Liberals in pro-internationalism, free trade and open borders shocker.
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Post by yellowperil on Jul 29, 2019 7:27:09 GMT
Well, it's a view absolutely never heard - the LibDems are now above all else the stop Brexit, stay in the EU party. No that is a total caricature of what the Lib Dems are about. Yes we have a majority policy decision that we favour stopping Brexit and remaining in the EU,and we are committed to that policy decision, which stems from our fundamental internationalism. Yet we contain a substantial minority who are at least mildly Eurosceptic, and a much smaller minority who have good Liberal reasons for being a good deal more sceptical than that. That's okay, we should welcome reasoned opposition to the majority view, again because that is a good liberal thing to do. Of course our membership has rapidly expanded recently picking up a lot of convinced Europeans who have joined us for that reason alone and who may not fully appreciate all those nuances, so may need time. I am absolutely committed to the European cause but I would not want a party that consisted of people who had only one view on everything. I realise it is difficult for Mike to comprehend because his ideal is a party that thinks exactly like him on all issues, and all others consigned to another party also consisting of people who all think the same as each other. Personally I shudder at the thought of a world like that.
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Post by Forfarshire Conservative on Jul 29, 2019 7:32:09 GMT
Well, it's a view absolutely never heard - the LibDems are now above all else the stop Brexit, stay in the EU party. Liberals in pro-internationalism, free trade and open borders shocker. Democrats in antidemocratic shocker.đ
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Jul 29, 2019 8:35:04 GMT
Well, it's a view absolutely never heard - the LibDems are now above all else the stop Brexit, stay in the EU party. No that is a total caricature of what the Lib Dems are about. Yes we have a majority policy decision that we favour stopping Brexit and remaining in the EU,and we are committed to that policy decision, which stems from our fundamental internationalism. Yet we contain a substantial minority who are at least mildly Eurosceptic, and a much smaller minority who have good Liberal reasons for being a good deal more sceptical than that. That's okay, we should welcome reasoned opposition to the majority view, again because that is a good liberal thing to do. Of course our membership has rapidly expanded recently picking up a lot of convinced Europeans  who have joined us for that reason alone and who may not fully appreciate all those nuances, so may need time. I am absolutely committed to the European cause but I would not want a party that consisted of people who had only one view on everything. I realise it is difficult for Mike to comprehend because his ideal is a party that thinks exactly like him on all issues, and all others consigned to another party also consisting of people who all think the same as each other. Personally I shudder at the thought of a world like that. Then you need to step away and realise how you appear to everyone else! Actually I am not criticising the approach. It gives you a USP. However if you really think it's given you anything other than an image as a single issue party which appears to welcome dividing politics into how you think about a single issue and that it has to be Remain or No Deal then you are simply ignoring the obvious. It would be very odd for someone to be in the LibDems and actively support No Deal!
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Jul 29, 2019 8:58:25 GMT
It would be very odd for someone to be in the LibDems and actively support No Deal! Especially since it only has a handful of adherents even in a more divided Labour party.
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neilm
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Post by neilm on Jul 29, 2019 10:24:49 GMT
Well, it's a view absolutely never heard - the LibDems are now above all else the stop Brexit, stay in the EU party. Liberals in pro-internationalism, free trade and open borders shocker. If you support EU membership, then you don't support free trade. You might support freer trade but, by definition, you don't support free trade. This isn't the thread for it, but there is a reason customs unions (as a general idea, not the EU version of one) are the key part of the 'Theory of Second Best.'
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Post by finsobruce on Jul 29, 2019 10:34:52 GMT
Liberals in pro-internationalism, free trade and open borders shocker. If you support EU membership, then you don't support free trade. You might support freer trade but, by definition, you don't support free trade.This isn't the thread for it, but there is a reason customs unions (as a general idea, not the EU version of one) are the key part of the 'Theory of Second Best.' On that basis nobody and no goverment supports 'free trade'.
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mboy
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Post by mboy on Jul 29, 2019 11:03:00 GMT
Well, isn't Singapore the only country in the world that has implemented zero tariffs on everyone for everything? On that basis, only they really support free trade, in the sense of practising what they preach.
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Post by Antiochian on Jul 29, 2019 18:36:55 GMT
I remember sitting with Emma over lunch shortly after she came over, answering all her questions- she really did work very hard at learning about the party. She contributed a lot to the party while she was with us, but of course in the end it was the Iraq issue that was critical for her and she had a genuinely liberal view of it but for very good reasons it was different from that of the party.Nevertheless we managed to find ways of overcoming those differences and her point of view was often different from the mainstream Lib Dem view on a number of policy issues but for years we were for two decades able to accommodate those differences which were within the range of Lib Dem policy agreements and as far as I know always amicable. Incidentally she had been more than another Tory MP, she had been a vice-chairman of the party. Nowadays she would have been taken out and shot for daring to differ....
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Post by yellowperil on Jul 29, 2019 18:53:42 GMT
I remember sitting with Emma over lunch shortly after she came over, answering all her questions- she really did work very hard at learning about the party. She contributed a lot to the party while she was with us, but of course in the end it was the Iraq issue that was critical for her and she had a genuinely liberal view of it but for very good reasons it was different from that of the party.Nevertheless we managed to find ways of overcoming those differences and her point of view was often different from the mainstream Lib Dem view on a number of policy issues but for years we were for two decades able to accommodate those differences which were within the range of Lib Dem policy agreements and as far as I know always amicable. Incidentally she had been more than another Tory MP, she had been a vice-chairman of the party. Nowadays she would have been taken out and shot for daring to differ.... Total rubbish.
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neilm
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Post by neilm on Jul 29, 2019 20:35:16 GMT
If you support EU membership, then you don't support free trade. You might support freer trade but, by definition, you don't support free trade.This isn't the thread for it, but there is a reason customs unions (as a general idea, not the EU version of one) are the key part of the 'Theory of Second Best.' On that basis nobody and no goverment supports 'free trade'. Essentially, yes. It's a real bugbear of mine- especially in the context of the EU because its been bandied about so much in the last few years.
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Post by Antiochian on Jul 29, 2019 22:26:34 GMT
Nowadays she would have been taken out and shot for daring to differ.... Total rubbish. Oh come on... there's more diversity of opinion in Corbynite Labour than the (non)Liberal Democrats these days... Ever wondered where the LibDems for Leave went.. the Bookers... Los desaparecidos....
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