peterl
Green
Congratulations President Trump
Posts: 8,473 
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Post by peterl on Feb 19, 2017 23:06:41 GMT
Following on from the thread on the upcoming City of London elections, I thought it would be interesting to have a poll/discussion on whether there is a need to reform local government in the City. As we all probably know, there is a rather unique sui generis structure with 100 Common Councilman and 25 Alderman largely elected by business electors. Many of the detailed rules such as polling hours and the required number of assentors are also different and one must be a Freeman of the City to stand. Time for change, or content with the status quo?
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Post by thirdchill on Feb 19, 2017 23:13:04 GMT
Some tweaks would be good, do we really need aldermen as well as the council members?
Moving it into a neighbouring borough would lead to the city being seen as a cash cow to finance borough spending a council it is moved into (westminster may be the exception to this).
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Post by thirdchill on Feb 19, 2017 23:15:29 GMT
Question is, how would the ward of the city of london vote in a council election if it was moved into a neighbouring borough.
My guess would be conservative, but certainly not by an overwhelming margin.
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Foggy
Non-Aligned
Yn Ennill Yma
Posts: 6,135
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Post by Foggy on Feb 19, 2017 23:15:43 GMT
If it had been brought into line with the norms of other local authorities 50, 100 or even 125 years ago, we'd look upon the past arrangement with some bemusement, I feel.
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Feb 19, 2017 23:20:25 GMT
Incorporation in a neighbouring borough would not work because, although it is a small area and a low population, the fact that it is a city centre area means it has far more going on than would be the case anywhere else. Incorporation would therefore unbalance any of the neighbouring authorities and just harm their existing population as well as the City.
My view has long been that the City should have maintained its traditional form and structure with the Court of Aldermen and the Court of Common Council being annually elected etc., but that they would only do the formality and that the actual work of planning local services would be transferred to a new body which would be elected on the same franchise as other local authorities.
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Post by Arthur Figgis on Feb 19, 2017 23:21:39 GMT
Can other local authorities not adopt the same governance model as the City of London has?  |
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Post by greatkingrat on Feb 19, 2017 23:22:38 GMT
Question is, how would the ward of the city of london vote in a council election if it was moved into a neighbouring borough. My guess would be conservative, but certainly not by an overwhelming margin. 2016 GLA list vote: Con 36%, Lab 29%, LD 10%, Grn 10%, WEP 6%, UKIP 4% |
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Post by timrollpickering on Feb 20, 2017 1:05:09 GMT
Question is, how would the ward of the city of london vote in a council election if it was moved into a neighbouring borough. My guess would be conservative, but certainly not by an overwhelming margin. 2016 GLA list vote: Con 36%, Lab 29%, LD 10%, Grn 10%, WEP 6%, UKIP 4% Also: Mayor 1st preference Conservative 1402 40.42% Labour 1306 37.65% Green 243 7% Lib Dem 230 6.63% Women's Equality 119 3.43% Ukip 72 2.08% Respect (George Galloway) 33 0.95% Cannabis Is Safer Than Alcohol 23 0.66% Britain First 17 0.49% Prince Zylinski 11 0.32% British National Party 10 0.29% One Love 3 0.09% Constituency (part of City & East) Conservative 1323 38.18% Labour 1002 28.92% Green 469 13.54% Lib Dem 439 12.67% Ukip 169 4.88% Respect (George Galloway) 41 1.18% Take Back the City 15 0.43% All People's Party 7 0.2% Livingstone carried the City in 2004. I can't at a glance find data for 2000, or for any other Assembly elections or the European counts. I'm sure others will have some of the data. |
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john07
Labour & Co-operative
Posts: 15,780
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Post by john07 on Feb 20, 2017 1:33:09 GMT
I regularly work in Fashion Street (when I am not in Glasgow or Muscat) which is right on the border between the City and Tower Hamlets and just around the corner from Spitalfields Church. It is a fascinating and vibrant place. I can see the arguments against merging it with a neighbouring Borough because of the 'cash cow' effect. I can also see the case for maintaining the historic ceremonial guild system with the Aldermen and Common Councillors that the City is noted for.
You would certainly be struggling to justify a full local authority given the limited population within the square mile.
Could it not be administered by a sub-committee of the London Mayoralty/London Assembly under the advice of a small elected council for the City?
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Post by finsobruce on Feb 20, 2017 11:38:56 GMT
If it ain't broke don't fix it. What exactly are the problems with the city of London which reform would solve? Nolt wrong with a bit of quirky tradition, as long as it's democratic then keep it! @benjl has a like from carlton43 over the governance of the City. Your march to respectability has begun! |
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right
Conservative
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Post by right on Feb 20, 2017 11:44:01 GMT
If it ain't broke don't fix it. What exactly are the problems with the city of London which reform would solve? Nolt wrong with a bit of quirky tradition, as long as it's democratic then keep it! I agree with the ain't broke don't fix it idea, but not sure that the City is really that democratic. Democracy is like a hammer, the right tool in many situations, but not suitable everywhere. |
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Post by No Offence Alan on Feb 20, 2017 11:52:12 GMT
Incorporation in a neighbouring borough would not work because, although it is a small area and a low population, the fact that it is a city centre area means it has far more going on than would be the case anywhere else. Incorporation would therefore unbalance any of the neighbouring authorities and just harm their existing population as well as the City. My view has long been that the City should have maintained its traditional form and structure with the Court of Aldermen and the Court of Common Council being annually elected etc., but that they would only do the formality and that the actual work of planning local services would be transferred to a new body which would be elected on the same franchise as other local authorities. Glasgow city centre, which is probably the second-biggest city centre in the UK, seems to cope with being part of Glasgow. |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Feb 20, 2017 12:06:22 GMT
Incorporation in a neighbouring borough would not work because, although it is a small area and a low population, the fact that it is a city centre area means it has far more going on than would be the case anywhere else. Incorporation would therefore unbalance any of the neighbouring authorities and just harm their existing population as well as the City. My view has long been that the City should have maintained its traditional form and structure with the Court of Aldermen and the Court of Common Council being annually elected etc., but that they would only do the formality and that the actual work of planning local services would be transferred to a new body which would be elected on the same franchise as other local authorities. Glasgow city centre, which is probably the second-biggest city centre in the UK, seems to cope with being part of Glasgow. Oh come off it, that's an utterly misleading comparison. Let's look at just a few of the differences: 1) Glasgow has always had unitary local government. London has never had. 2) The city centre of Glasgow is a commercial and retail place which derives from being the centre of the city. The City of London has very little retail. Could be argued that it is not really the centre of the city, which is more centred on Trafalgar Square. 3) Glasgow is not a historic major international financial services centre (it's trying to be one, which is an admission it isn't at the moment). The City of London is. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2017 12:29:28 GMT
It's always going to be an anomaly unless you merge it with a neighbouring borough, owing to the combination of large/lucrative business/commercial centre with very small residential population. On an ordinary franchise one might see it moving from a business fiefdom to a fiefdom run from the Barbican, where a significant % of residents live (and a larger share of those who are civically active).
Perhaps as a compromise to David's model it could have a 'city council' on a parish model with a regular franchise, which initially takes on a limited number of resident-oriented services (e.g. domestic waste, housing management) and expands as appropriate. This would require primary legislation though as the law to enable the creation of civil parishes in Greater London was not extended to the City.
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right
Conservative
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Post by right on Feb 20, 2017 13:11:19 GMT
I agree with the ain't broke don't fix it idea, but not sure that the City is really that democratic. Democracy is like a hammer, the right tool in many situations, but not suitable everywhere. well the people and commuters chose the common council which is good enough for me. I didn't realise that commuters chose the common council. In fact that rather annoys me as I've used to commute to the City a lot and I was never offered a vote and wonder how I could have applied for one (other than getting residence in the City, which would rather defeat the purpose!) |
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Post by finsobruce on Feb 20, 2017 14:13:33 GMT
well the people and commuters chose the common council which is good enough for me. I didn't realise that commuters chose the common council. In fact that rather annoys me as I've used to commute to the City a lot and I was never offered a vote and wonder how I could have applied for one (other than getting residence in the City, which would rather defeat the purpose!) they have been making a push in the last couple of years to offer "business votes" at the rate of 6 per company and send out forms all the time. it was tempting. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2017 14:24:51 GMT
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Post by Arthur Figgis on Feb 20, 2017 14:44:10 GMT
I didn't realise that commuters chose the common council. In fact that rather annoys me as I've used to commute to the City a lot and I was never offered a vote and wonder how I could have applied for one (other than getting residence in the City, which would rather defeat the purpose!) they have been making a push in the last couple of years to offer "business votes" at the rate of 6 per company and send out forms all the time. it was tempting. I thought you were a wandering minstrel? |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Feb 20, 2017 14:48:07 GMT
I didn't realise that commuters chose the common council. In fact that rather annoys me as I've used to commute to the City a lot and I was never offered a vote and wonder how I could have applied for one (other than getting residence in the City, which would rather defeat the purpose!) they have been making a push in the last couple of years to offer "business votes" at the rate of 6 per company and send out forms all the time. it was tempting. We were all asked if we wanted to be voters when I was with Lloyds Bank, although it was painfully obvious that the "right" people were going to be selected. |
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right
Conservative
Posts: 18,763
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Post by right on Feb 20, 2017 15:15:02 GMT
they have been making a push in the last couple of years to offer "business votes" at the rate of 6 per company and send out forms all the time. it was tempting. We were all asked if we wanted to be voters when I was with Lloyds Bank, although it was painfully obvious that the "right" people were going to be selected. Permie, contractor or consultant? |
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