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Post by carlton43 on Feb 4, 2017 12:38:06 GMT
No Scottish Parliament: which would neatly give me my second wish of a return of First Past The Post local council elections in Scotland (which would also mean greater flexibility where constituency design is concerned)  Quoted to like it again. Agree both planks to your argument. Without it we would be further away from independence not nearer to it. The downside is probably far less of a meltdown in the Labour numbers and possibly no Westminster majority? |
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,889
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Post by The Bishop on Feb 4, 2017 12:39:44 GMT
No Scottish Parliament: which would neatly give me my second wish of a return of First Past The Post local council elections in Scotland (which would also mean greater flexibility where constituency design is concerned) Quoted to like it again. Agree both planks to your argument. Without it we would be further away from independence not nearer to it. The downside is probably far less of a meltdown in the Labour numbers and possibly no Westminster majority? A complete statement of faith, all the actual evidence suggests the opposite. |
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Post by carlton43 on Feb 4, 2017 12:41:31 GMT
Quoted to like it again. Agree both planks to your argument. Without it we would be further away from independence not nearer to it. The downside is probably far less of a meltdown in the Labour numbers and possibly no Westminster majority? A complete statement of faith, all the actual evidence suggests the opposite. What evidence can there be to a situation that does not exist? It is far from blind faith and just an honest opinion as is yours. |
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,889
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Post by The Bishop on Feb 4, 2017 12:46:58 GMT
The fact that Scottish nationalist (small-"n" at first, admittedly) sentiment has been on the rise since at least the 1960s is a pretty powerful pointer I think.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2017 14:45:39 GMT
I would outlaw opinion polling.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2017 15:36:53 GMT
[Not entirely serious]
Election results to be declared, ward by ward, in the style of the Eurovision Song Contest
[/Not entirely serious]
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2017 15:56:39 GMT
No Scottish Parliament: which would neatly give me my second wish of a return of First Past The Post local council elections in Scotland (which would also mean greater flexibility where constituency design is concerned) Two things we actually agree on! |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2017 16:48:08 GMT
I would outlaw opinion polling. The time between one election and the next would be extremely boring without opinion polls: without them Brexit would not have been nearly so interesting and the 2015 UK general election campaign would be plain boring... Had we not had polls Nick Clegg would've been decapitated. It would make things more interesting imo. |
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Foggy
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Post by Foggy on Feb 4, 2017 18:42:10 GMT
Election results to be declared, ward by ward, in the style of the Eurovision Song Contest "Good evening Preston, this is Fulwood calling. Here are the results of the Greyfriars vote: TUSC, nul points... " |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2017 19:03:50 GMT
Election results to be declared, ward by ward, in the style of the Eurovision Song Contest "Good evening Preston, this is Fulwood calling. Here are the results of the Greyfriars vote: TUSC, nul points... " It's like you've read my mind... |
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YL
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Either Labour leaning or Lib Dem leaning but not sure which
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Post by YL on Feb 4, 2017 19:15:22 GMT
Had we not had polls Nick Clegg would've been decapitated. It would make things more interesting imo. Why would Clegg have been decapitated? He had a clear personal vote and gained votes from the Conservatives similar to the result in other Lib Dem constituencies like Carshalton & Wallington and Southport. I don't think many voters vote on the basis of opinion polling either... We would've still had a smothering of dodge-y Lib Dem charts in all three seats regardless of this mind. It sounds boring to me but there you go. Without the opinion polling showing Labour competitive, the idea of them taking the seat (which, remember, is a seat with a not obviously promising demographic profile for Labour which has never been held by the party) would have seemed much less plausible. So I'm sure it influenced the size of the Tory tactical move to Clegg. However, I think Labour benefitted too, picking up votes which might otherwise have gone to the Greens or even stuck with Clegg (from people thinking the seat was still a LD/Con battleground: the Lib Dems always benefitted quite a bit from left-wing tactical votes in Hallam before 2015). My guess is that without the polling both Labour and the Lib Dems would have been in the low 30s, with the Lib Dems probably slightly ahead. The Greens and Tories would have done a bit better. |
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Feb 5, 2017 0:59:17 GMT
I like the idea of the local authority raising more of its revenue, but there are clear limits there. Certain areas have much wider tax bases than others so you'd need central redistribution, not least because the areas with narrower tax bases tend to have greater social needs. And even if you do it on a transitional basis, you'll never get close to eliminating that disparity - Pol Pot could take over Westminster Council and the business rates from Oxford Street would still pour in, whereas there's no way that Torridge District Council is ever going to be a major commercial hub. So if I was going to make one change, I'd abolish all parish councils. It wouldn't get close to solving all the problems with the structure of local government, but almost nobody who isn't on one would actually miss them.What would abolishing PCs achieve? It'd cut the precept. You'd probably end up half-restoring the ones covering sizeable towns and putting in nebulous area committees for rural areas, but you could do that without a separate precept. It's not the most effective change you could make, but those would all be made up of several steps. Whereas this would be a simple step, it'd be cheap and the world would thank you for removing most parish councillors from office. As an added bonus, it'd mean I'd no longer need to hear people suggesting that the answer to local democracy is to run everything through the parishes. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2017 9:05:48 GMT
Why would Clegg have been decapitated? He had a clear personal vote and gained votes from the Conservatives similar to the result in other Lib Dem constituencies like Carshalton & Wallington and Southport. I don't think many voters vote on the basis of opinion polling either... We would've still had a smothering of dodge-y Lib Dem charts in all three seats regardless of this mind. It sounds boring to me but there you go. Without the opinion polling showing Labour competitive, the idea of them taking the seat (which, remember, is a seat with a not obviously promising demographic profile for Labour which has never been held by the party) would have seemed much less plausible. So I'm sure it influenced the size of the Tory tactical move to Clegg. However, I think Labour benefitted too, picking up votes which might otherwise have gone to the Greens or even stuck with Clegg (from people thinking the seat was still a LD/Con battleground: the Lib Dems always benefitted quite a bit from left-wing tactical votes in Hallam before 2015). My guess is that without the polling both Labour and the Lib Dems would have been in the low 30s, with the Lib Dems probably slightly ahead. The Greens and Tories would have done a bit better. If there had been no polling in Hallam then it may've been a three-way fight. |
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YL
Non-Aligned
Either Labour leaning or Lib Dem leaning but not sure which
Posts: 4,905
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Post by YL on Feb 5, 2017 12:16:37 GMT
Without the opinion polling showing Labour competitive, the idea of them taking the seat (which, remember, is a seat with a not obviously promising demographic profile for Labour which has never been held by the party) would have seemed much less plausible. So I'm sure it influenced the size of the Tory tactical move to Clegg. However, I think Labour benefitted too, picking up votes which might otherwise have gone to the Greens or even stuck with Clegg (from people thinking the seat was still a LD/Con battleground: the Lib Dems always benefitted quite a bit from left-wing tactical votes in Hallam before 2015). My guess is that without the polling both Labour and the Lib Dems would have been in the low 30s, with the Lib Dems probably slightly ahead. The Greens and Tories would have done a bit better. If there had been no polling in Hallam then it may've been a three-way fight. No, you'd need more than no polling to get that. You'd also need an active and competent local Conservative Party, which I think is outside the scope of this thread... |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Feb 6, 2017 20:25:02 GMT
What would abolishing PCs achieve? It'd cut the precept. You'd probably end up half-restoring the ones covering sizeable towns and putting in nebulous area committees for rural areas, but you could do that without a separate precept. It's not the most effective change you could make, but those would all be made up of several steps. Whereas this would be a simple step, it'd be cheap and the world would thank you for removing most parish councillors from office. As an added bonus, it'd mean I'd no longer need to hear people suggesting that the answer to local democracy is to run everything through the parishes. In my patch the Council Tax is c.£1500. The PC element is £17.34. Most people wouldn't notice the change. They would notice that the village green was no longer maintained (among other things). |
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john07
Labour & Co-operative
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Post by john07 on Feb 6, 2017 22:12:46 GMT
It'd cut the precept. You'd probably end up half-restoring the ones covering sizeable towns and putting in nebulous area committees for rural areas, but you could do that without a separate precept. It's not the most effective change you could make, but those would all be made up of several steps. Whereas this would be a simple step, it'd be cheap and the world would thank you for removing most parish councillors from office. As an added bonus, it'd mean I'd no longer need to hear people suggesting that the answer to local democracy is to run everything through the parishes. In my patch the Council Tax is c.£1500. The PC element is £17.34. Most people wouldn't notice the change. They would notice that the village green was no longer maintained (among other things). That is PC gone mad! (Sorry about that one). |
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Post by David Ashforth on Feb 8, 2017 20:16:40 GMT
If there had been no polling in Hallam then it may've been a three-way fight. No, you'd need more than no polling to get that. You'd also need an active and competent local Conservative Party, which I think is outside the scope of this thread... Indeed. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2017 21:50:37 GMT
No, you'd need more than no polling to get that. You'd also need an active and competent local Conservative Party, which I think is outside the scope of this thread... Indeed. Pitiful how moribund the Conservatives are in Sheffield really, ditto Oxford (where I live now). |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2017 21:52:22 GMT
No, you'd need more than no polling to get that. You'd also need an active and competent local Conservative Party, which I think is outside the scope of this thread... Indeed. My other idea of using STV in local elections would be a life support system for Tories in northern cities. They'd likely pick up seats in Dore & Totley and Stocksbridge & Upper Don with such a system. |
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Foggy
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Post by Foggy on Feb 8, 2017 22:59:14 GMT
My other idea of using STV in local elections would be a life support system for Tories in northern cities. They'd likely pick up seats in Dore & Totley and Stocksbridge & Upper Don with such a system. You're talking as if the ward boundaries would be unchanged under STV. |
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