Calling by-elections

[Deleted]

Branching out from the Copeland thread, how should by-elections to Westminster be called?

In keeping with much of the UKs parliamentary, electoral and administrative processes, there is no officially written down process by which a by-election is called. Much of what is understood and followed is essentially convention, not rule, and certainly not law. As such the process by which a by-election is called can be subject to much uncertainty and speculation.

Insofar as there are "supporters and critics" about this, two general sides do appear. One argues that the Speaker's Convention settled most of the substantive arguments around when a writ is moved, and the consequent by-election timetable. The other argues that Political Party manipulation, uncertainty and confusion can arise by the lack of structure.

So where does the forum lie? Is the current system acceptable? What amendments could or should be made?

[Arthur Figgis]

Jan 5, 2017 23:42:38 GMT doktorb🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️ said:

Branching out from the Copeland thread, how should by-elections to Westminster be called?

Bob.

[Deleted]

Jan 5, 2017 23:46:26 GMT Arthur Figgis said:

Jan 5, 2017 23:42:38 GMT doktorb🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️ said:

Branching out from the Copeland thread, how should by-elections to Westminster be called?

Bob.

Honourable or Right Honourable?

[carlton43]

I quite like by-election, but then I am a conformist.

[carlton43]

Let us work out from the event (resignation/death/expulsion)and first accept a formal resignation by any MP being able to pass a formal note to the Chair for the Speaker. At the moment of receipt by the Speaker the MP is stripped of title and privileges and a vacancy formally declared from the Chair.

The formal Writ is issued by the Clerk on instruction of the Speaker 30-days from the day the Speaker is informed of a death/resignation/expulsion. That in turn sets up a timetable for the election to be held.

A note can only be passed to the Chair during the period that the House is sitting, and that follows for accepting notice of death or expulsion. It is deemed that such notice is taken on the first day of any session following such events.

The political parties are irrelevant to this matter which is between Speaker/House and Constituency/Electorate. Thus by-election at the earliest possible time within that laid down timescale.

[Khunanup]

I'd have a maximum of two months from the vacancy for the by-election to be called but it can be called at any time within that period by two electors within the constituency (similar to council by-elections). It should have nothing to do with the political parties directly, it is between the electorate and the parliamentary authorities.

This is one of the reasons I despise parliamentary convention. That actions that govern our democracy are dependent on what are essentially gentlemens agreements is ridiculous. If you want to create rules, write them down and make them binding. 'Bad form' is never going to stop something that could be potentially politically devastating from ever happening. If things are against the rules that's a very different matter.

[ideal4radio]

I've been toying with the idea of a quarter day, ie: the first Thursdays in May, August, November & February are the dates used for any by elections.... parish,town,Borough,Unitary,County,Metropolitan,Devolved Parliaments all the way up to Westminster.

If a vacancy occurs more than 49 days prior to the next quarter day, then the by-election is held on the next quarter day. The election is announced 10 days after the vacancy occurs, which should always give a minimum of 3 weeks or so to campaign, once nominations have closed.

No messing around by parties, people not left unrepresented, & hopefully increased turnouts as people get used to the quarter-day system. Since 2010, there's been an average of c 280 local by-elections per annum, so that would mean we'd have the local elections in May,with any by-elections that may be due, plus three other mini "Election nights", with an average of 70 or so By-elections each...

Any thoughts ??

[johnloony]

Jan 6, 2017 3:03:42 GMT ideal4radio said:

I've been toying with the idea of a quarter day, ie: the first Thursdays in May, August, November & February are the dates used for any by elections.... parish,town,Borough,Unitary,County,Metropolitan,Devolved Parliaments all the way up to Westminster.

If a vacancy occurs more than 49 days prior to the next quarter day, then the by-election is held on the next quarter day. The election is announced 10 days after the vacancy occurs, which should always give a minimum of 3 weeks or so to campaign, once nominations have closed.

No messing around by parties, people not left unrepresented, & hopefully increased turnouts as people get used to the quarter-day system. Since 2010, there's been an average of c 280 local by-elections per annum, so that would mean we'd have the local elections in May,with any by-elections that may be due, plus three other mini "Election nights", with an average of 70 or so By-elections each...

Any thoughts ??

That is making it unnecessarily complicated and restricted. August would be too awkward for obvious reasons. The current system works OK most of the time, and there might sometimes be a need or desire to do by-elections quickly when it would be easy to do so (e.g. Richmond Park, Witney) and a 3-month delay would be too long. The main problem with the current arrangements is that there is sometimes a delay which is too long, and that only happens very occasionally (Batley & Spen). In 1990, Bootle was vacant for a full 6 months, but that was different.

[J.G.Harston]

Jan 6, 2017 0:39:40 GMT carlton43 said:

The formal Writ is issued by the Clerk on instruction of the Speaker 30-days from the day the Speaker is informed of a death/resignation/expulsion. That in turn sets up a timetable for the election to be held.

That leaves flexibility for the Speaker to be officially informed of a death after the funeral and avoid the potential embarrassment of publically campaigning before the late MP is in the ground.

With fixed-term Parliaments, a six-month rule would be sensible.

[LDCaerdydd]

Jan 6, 2017 6:14:03 GMT J.G.Harston said:

Jan 6, 2017 0:39:40 GMT carlton43 said:

The formal Writ is issued by the Clerk on instruction of the Speaker 30-days from the day the Speaker is informed of a death/resignation/expulsion. That in turn sets up a timetable for the election to be held.

That leaves flexibility for the Speaker to be officially informed of a death after the funeral and avoid the potential embarrassment of publically campaigning before the late MP is in the ground.

With fixed-term Parliaments, a six-month rule would be sensible.

You're getting there.

By-elections should have nothing to do with the whips or political parties.

They should be called by the speaker and a vacancy filled within say eight weeks of the death/disqualification.

As tragic as the events in Batley were last year, there was no reason why residents there went without representation for over four months, while residents in Witney only had to wait five weeks.

As interesting as lumping by-elections together makes it for people like us, it's the public who should take priority.

The speaker could leave a bit of flexibility, but no more than say a week either side, for the local council organising it, if there were a local logistical/practical reason why the 1st February couldn't work, but Jan 25th or Feb 8th could for example.

The eight weeks would give ample wiggle room to combine a parliamentary by-election with scheduled local elections or ensure a suitable gap so that residents aren't dragged out of their homes on two consecutive Thursdays.

The six month rule should be confirmed and written in statue now that we have the fixed term parliament act.

[Davıd Boothroyd]

All this rushing into this thread may give the impression that there's some kind of problem with the way things work now. I venture to suggest that there really isn't. The reason Batley and Spen took a long time to call was that the death of the MP was totally unexpected and very shocking, and it was not right to rush the local community into what would inevitably be a traumatic byelection campaign which would attract the far right elements.

There is no 'six month rule' for Parliamentary elections and never has been. Don't know where that comes from.

[LDCaerdydd]

I was referring to the six month council election rule - which is set in legislation.

In terms of Batley being tragic and unexpected yes of course it was.

The Eastbourne by-election, was also tragic and unexpected, took place about eight weeks after the assignation.

The plane crash that killed the then President of Poland in 2010 was tragic and unexpected, yet the first round of voting in what was essentially a by-election took place 9 weeks later.

The West Belfast by-election in 2012 took place four and a bit months after Gerry Adams quit - why should that have taken so long?

[johnr]

Jan 6, 2017 10:05:07 GMT LDCaerdydd said:

I was referring to the six month council election rule - which is set in legislation.

In terms of Batley being tragic and unexpected yes of course it was.

The Eastbourne by-election, was also tragic and unexpected, took place about eight weeks after the assignation.

The plane crash that killed the then President of Poland in 2010 was tragic and unexpected, yet the first round of voting in what was essentially a by-election took place 9 weeks later.

The West Belfast by-election in 2012 took place four and a bit months after Gerry Adams quit - why should that have taken so long?

I think the problem with the Gerry Adams thing was that he was unwilling to take the Chiltern Hundreds - being an office of profit under the Crown...

[Crimson King]

I agree that it works ok most of the time. The times when it doesn't are annoying though.

In Gerry Adams' case his refusal to play the traditional (and utterly pointless) game showed haw daft it was which is really annoying as it makes those who insist on the tradition appear a bit daft. In Batley and Spen the desire not to tread on sensibilities and not be the first to say 'ok thats enough - pull your finger out and call it' even what that was the right thing to do must have been frustrating.

The fired term parliament act (assuming it survives, which I suspect it will) has opened the door to taking the timing of calling elections out of the hands of the 'holders' and it might be reasonable to set a maximum time (perhaps four months) after which a by-election is automatically triggered.

The question of a 'six (or four) month rule is different, and is about whether there is a period it is reasonable to leave a constituency unrepresented, purely to save time and money.

[The Bishop]

Jan 6, 2017 10:05:07 GMT LDCaerdydd said:

The West Belfast by-election in 2012 took place four and a bit months after Gerry Adams quit - why should that have taken so long?

2011 - had it been in 2012 that *would* have been a long gap

[LDCaerdydd]

Jan 6, 2017 10:26:37 GMT johnr said:

Jan 6, 2017 10:05:07 GMT LDCaerdydd said:

I was referring to the six month council election rule - which is set in legislation.

In terms of Batley being tragic and unexpected yes of course it was.

The Eastbourne by-election, was also tragic and unexpected, took place about eight weeks after the assignation.

The plane crash that killed the then President of Poland in 2010 was tragic and unexpected, yet the first round of voting in what was essentially a by-election took place 9 weeks later.

The West Belfast by-election in 2012 took place four and a bit months after Gerry Adams quit - why should that have taken so long?

I think the problem with the Gerry Adams thing was that he was unwilling to take the Chiltern Hundreds - being an office of profit under the Crown...

I know there were issues with him not wanting to accept it, but HM Treasury 'appointed' him to it in January...and the by election occurred in June so surly that's not an excuse for a delay?

The method by which MPs resign is also ridiculous, they should simply write a letter to the Speaker, who should then call the by election (but this is a discussion for another thread).

[peterl]

I would make it very simple. When a vacancy arises, the Speaker consults with the relevant returning officer and chooses a date between 30 days and 60 days hence. MPs are permitted to officially resign which they can do by a letter to the Speaker. By elections can be called during a recess as this would be an power exercised independently by the Speaker. The Speaker instructs the Clerk of the Crown in Chancery to issue the writ for the selected date. The introduction of a 6 month rule (no Parliamentary by elections for vacancies arising within 6 months of a general election) would be sensible now that general elections occur at fixed intervals.

[LDCaerdydd]

Jan 6, 2017 11:09:23 GMT peterl said:

I would make it very simple. When a vacancy arises, the Speaker consults with the relevant returning officer and chooses a date between 30 days and 60 days hence. MPs are permitted to officially resign which they can do by a letter to the Speaker. By elections can be called during a recess as this would be an power exercised independently by the Speaker. The Speaker instructs the Clerk of the Crown in Chancery to issue the writ for the selected date. The introduction of a 6 month rule (no Parliamentary by elections for vacancies arising within 6 months of a general election) would be sensible now that general elections occur at fixed intervals.

Writs can of course currently be moved during reses as was the case with the Livingston by-election in 2005.

[Davıd Boothroyd]

Can I just point out that the complaint until recently was that byelections were being called with undue haste. The Lib Dems were apparently behind a change in the law in the Electoral Registration and Administration Act 2013 (2013 c. 6), s. 14, which added eight days to the timetable. Note comments by ultra-Lib Dem Mark Pack.

[LDCaerdydd]

Jan 6, 2017 9:41:06 GMT Davıd Boothroyd said:

All this rushing into this thread may give the impression that there's some kind of problem with the way things work now. I venture to suggest that there really isn't.

I think you’ve just contradicted your point.

There have been complaints by some that some by-elections are called too quickly, and complaints by some others that some are called too slowly.

If we had a timetable written down and executed by a single person (Let’s say the natural Speaker) we wouldn’t have these allegations.

Jan 6, 2017 12:38:51 GMT Davıd Boothroyd said:

ultra-Lib Dem Mark Pack.

You two really don’t get on do you