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Post by gwynthegriff on Nov 7, 2017 16:58:23 GMT
In Cheshire, if I could, I'd go back to having councils for the rural districts, the towns, and the county. But failing that, hopefully one day the stupid councils that were imposed on us in 2009 will be split in two: Macclesfield 155,000 Crewe 205,000 Chester 205,000 Vale Royal 240,000 Warrington 195,000 Edit: There could be a plebiscite in Widnes to see whether the people there would prefer to be in Vale Royal, St Helens, Warrington or Knowsley! That bears a striking resemblance to what we (the local LDs) were proposing. Post Halton & Warrington "Cheshire" had four centres: Chester, Northwich, Macclesfield, Crewe. Where are the FE Colleges? C N M C Where are the M&S stores? C N M C Where are the bus hubs? C N M C Where are the hospitals? C N M C |
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Adrian
Co-operative Party
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Post by Adrian on Nov 7, 2017 17:06:30 GMT
I'm in favour of the survival of UAs auch as Sefton, Newcastle-under-Lyme and Solihull where there's a major focal town or towns; in Sefton's case, Bootle & Crosby. (And Southport, although there's an argument for transferring the latter to Lancashire.) By contrast, I think backwaters like Huyton and Halewood would be better off as part of Liverpool. Newcastle-Under-Lyme isn't a unitary. It's also questionable how "focal" its major town is ... Sorry I meant LAs. I can't see the point of removing power from towns. Democratically speaking it has a chilling effect, and places lose importance. The smaller Black Country towns, and Sutton Coldfield, are shadows of their former selves. Not enough imagination goes into LA reform. If you can combine LAs whilst maintaining properly local democracy, all well and good, but no thought goes into this. |
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Post by No Offence Alan on Nov 7, 2017 20:19:27 GMT
Burnley and Pendle councils to be combined as a unitary.
(dons tin hat and running shoes)
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Foggy
Non-Aligned
Yn Ennill Yma
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Post by Foggy on Nov 7, 2017 21:20:06 GMT
The main problem with merging up Greater Glasgow is execution: do you merge the Greater Glasgow urban area (which is in essence East Renfrewshire, East Dunbartonshire, Paisley, Clydebank, Rutherglen and Glasgow), or do you go beyond that and join up the extended Clyde Valley to cover Lanarkshire, Inverclyde and outer parts of Dunbartonshire and Renfrewshire. Part of the current East Dunbartonshire council area was historically in Stirlingshire, which doesn't really feel like it belongs in any 'Greater Glasgow' region. I do find the nostalgia for two tier rather endearing on this site which almost exclusively comes from those who have either never experienced living under it or who look at it through intensely rose tinted spectacles with it having been 20 years since living under that woefully inadequate local government structure. NB That is not to say that the pattern of unitaries is necessarily good everywhere, whole county unitaries (bar Rutland for obvious reasons) plus abominations like the two 'later' Cheshire unitaries are particularly terrible and retain all the worst aspects of two tier governance. Because of remoteness some Scottish and Welsh unitaries leave a lot to be desired too but then two tier or one tier that would be the case there anyway due to viability. For some of us, it's not nostalgia. Two-tier is still the reality around here and as you say it works a darn sight better than the arrangement in neighbouring Wiltshire and nearby Cornwall and Herefordshire, and in rural Wales. I also agree that the Bedfordshire/'Cheshire' solution from 2009 is not the answer either. In Cheshire, if I could, I'd go back to having councils for the rural districts, the towns, and the county. But failing that, hopefully one day the stupid councils that were imposed on us in 2009 will be split in two: Macclesfield 155,000 Crewe 205,000 Chester 205,000 Vale Royal 240,000 Warrington 195,000 Edit: There could be a plebiscite in Widnes to see whether the people there would prefer to be in Vale Royal, St Helens, Warrington or Knowsley! That bears a striking resemblance to what we (the local LDs) were proposing. Post Halton & Warrington "Cheshire" had four centres: Chester, Northwich, Macclesfield, Crewe. Where are the FE Colleges? C N M C Where are the M&S stores? C N M C Where are the bus hubs? C N M C Where are the hospitals? C N M C I'm not sure like the idea of basing local government borders on the location of private businesses! Widnes is in Lancashire, so I wouldn't include Vale Royal among the options in Adrian's proposed local referendum. |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Nov 7, 2017 21:37:55 GMT
The main problem with merging up Greater Glasgow is execution: do you merge the Greater Glasgow urban area (which is in essence East Renfrewshire, East Dunbartonshire, Paisley, Clydebank, Rutherglen and Glasgow), or do you go beyond that and join up the extended Clyde Valley to cover Lanarkshire, Inverclyde and outer parts of Dunbartonshire and Renfrewshire. Part of the current East Dunbartonshire council area was historically in Stirlingshire, which doesn't really feel like it belongs in any 'Greater Glasgow' region. I do find the nostalgia for two tier rather endearing on this site which almost exclusively comes from those who have either never experienced living under it or who look at it through intensely rose tinted spectacles with it having been 20 years since living under that woefully inadequate local government structure. NB That is not to say that the pattern of unitaries is necessarily good everywhere, whole county unitaries (bar Rutland for obvious reasons) plus abominations like the two 'later' Cheshire unitaries are particularly terrible and retain all the worst aspects of two tier governance. Because of remoteness some Scottish and Welsh unitaries leave a lot to be desired too but then two tier or one tier that would be the case there anyway due to viability. For some of us, it's not nostalgia. Two-tier is still the reality around here and as you say it works a darn sight better than the arrangement in neighbouring Wiltshire and nearby Cornwall and Herefordshire, and in rural Wales. I also agree that the Bedfordshire/'Cheshire' solution from 2009 is not the answer either. That bears a striking resemblance to what we (the local LDs) were proposing. Post Halton & Warrington "Cheshire" had four centres: Chester, Northwich, Macclesfield, Crewe. Where are the FE Colleges? C N M C Where are the M&S stores? C N M C Where are the bus hubs? C N M C Where are the hospitals? C N M C Widnes is in Lancashire, so I wouldn't include Vale Royal among the options in Adrian's proposed local referendum. I cite it merely as an indication that these are the principal shopping centres of the county. |
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Foggy
Non-Aligned
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Post by Foggy on Nov 7, 2017 21:40:58 GMT
So where are the Woolworths and BHS branches located?  |
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J.G.Harston
Lib Dem
Leave-voting Brexit-supporting Liberal Democrat
Posts: 14,846
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Post by J.G.Harston on Nov 7, 2017 21:48:42 GMT
One authority which I think has outlived its purpose is Knowsley. Surely the people of the six (?) towns would be better off under the neighbouring LAs? This is my plan for Merseyside:  |
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J.G.Harston
Lib Dem
Leave-voting Brexit-supporting Liberal Democrat
Posts: 14,846
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Post by J.G.Harston on Nov 7, 2017 21:53:54 GMT
Newcastle-Under-Lyme isn't a unitary. It's also questionable how "focal" its major town is ... And my plan for Newcastle-Under-Lyme/Stoke:  |
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Adrian
Co-operative Party
Posts: 1,742
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Post by Adrian on Nov 7, 2017 22:18:59 GMT
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Foggy
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Post by Foggy on Nov 7, 2017 22:20:11 GMT
No, it definitely still is. A Whitehall cartographer's pencil from the early 1970s does not change the reality in the hearts and minds of all true Lancastrians.
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Nov 7, 2017 22:24:48 GMT
One authority which I think has outlived its purpose is Knowsley. Surely the people of the six (?) towns would be better off under the neighbouring LAs? This is my plan for Merseyside: No it isn't. It's my plan. You blatantly skanked it off me  |
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Post by greenhert on Nov 7, 2017 22:27:32 GMT
Just a reminder that Knowsley was a late addition to the local government reorganisation of the 1970s - was originally part of St Helens I think. Correct. They did not want to make St Helens too large which is why Knowsley was created. |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Nov 7, 2017 22:45:14 GMT
Newcastle-Under-Lyme isn't a unitary. It's also questionable how "focal" its major town is ... And my plan for Newcastle-Under-Lyme/Stoke: What happens to the rest of Newcastle under Lyme Borough? |
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J.G.Harston
Lib Dem
Leave-voting Brexit-supporting Liberal Democrat
Posts: 14,846
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Post by J.G.Harston on Nov 7, 2017 22:49:47 GMT
This is my plan for Merseyside: No it isn't. It's my plan. You blatantly skanked it off me Check the file dates  -rw-r--r-- 1 521 mdfsnet 323099 Oct 09 2016 Birmingham.gif
-rw-r--r-- 1 521 mdfsnet 250980 Jun 22 2016 Leicester.gif
-rw-r--r-- 1 521 mdfsnet 371192 Jun 21 2016 Mersyside.gif
-rw-r--r-- 1 521 mdfsnet 276992 Oct 05 2016 Nottingham.gif
-rw-r--r-- 1 521 mdfsnet 353535 Oct 09 2016 Stoke.gif
-rw-r--r-- 1 521 mdfsnet 354563 Nov 01 2016 Teesside.gifGreat minds, and all that.  |
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J.G.Harston
Lib Dem
Leave-voting Brexit-supporting Liberal Democrat
Posts: 14,846
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Post by J.G.Harston on Nov 7, 2017 22:56:18 GMT
And my plan for Newcastle-Under-Lyme/Stoke: What happens to the rest of Newcastle under Lyme Borough? Dunno. That map only addresses Newcastle/Stoke. NuL does stretch out for miles and miles of countryside that is not really anything to do with NuL. The M6 is a more natural western boundary of NuL than the Shropshire Union. |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Nov 7, 2017 23:16:15 GMT
What happens to the rest of Newcastle under Lyme Borough? Dunno. That map only addresses Newcastle/Stoke. NuL does stretch out for miles and miles of countryside that is not really anything to do with NuL. The M6 is a more natural western boundary of NuL than the Shropshire Union. Well, you'll have to put it somewhere! And the only options are to give Stafford BC very odd boundaries, add it to Shropshire (an abomination of a Council) or to Cheshire East (ditto). And - in any case - putting the Ancient and Loyal Borough into Stoke is pitchfork and flaming torches territory. |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Nov 7, 2017 23:25:33 GMT
No, it definitely still is. A Whitehall cartographer's pencil from the early 1970s does not change the reality in the hearts and minds of all true Lancastrians. They play Rugby League. Lancashire. |
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Foggy
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Post by Foggy on Nov 7, 2017 23:31:31 GMT
No, it definitely still is. A Whitehall cartographer's pencil from the early 1970s does not change the reality in the hearts and minds of all true Lancastrians. They play Rugby League. Lancashire. There are plenty of places in other counties where professional League is played, you know: Yorkshire, Cumberland, Roussillon, York County in Ontario... ... just not Cheshire. |
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Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
Posts: 12,060
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Post by Khunanup on Nov 7, 2017 23:34:41 GMT
This is my plan for Merseyside: No it isn't. It's my plan. You blatantly skanked it off me Nothing to boast about, it doesn't make the logical boundary extension on the Wirral... |
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Foggy
Non-Aligned
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Post by Foggy on Nov 8, 2017 3:28:18 GMT
No it isn't. It's my plan. You blatantly skanked it off me Nothing to boast about, it doesn't make the logical boundary extension on the Wirral... Don't you mean the logical boundary contraction?  |
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