Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2016 22:16:37 GMT
I know there has been the odd few who have defected to the Lib Dems, but these days the more moderate Labour MPs who don't support Corbyn are just told to join the Tories, even though Lib Dem policies would come closer to their views. I just find it odd that none of them seem to consider them. TBH, we could do with the injection of Parliamentary experience and in some cases experience in govt that could come with some defections from Labour. In reality, the MPs most out of step with Corbyn are also those who want to take an anti-immigration line - which may make sense for Labour but doesn't really fit in with the LDs. They also seem to take the view that public sector reform is synonymous with more private sector involvement. Liz Kendall's argument that there is not a progressive majority in Britain may have merit but it is hardly a clarion call for Liberal values. Most of them also represent constituencies which voted leave, which would make joining the LDs problematic for both parties. Yes, I agree. I would also recall the mid-late Blair period when relations between the Lib Dems and the right/Blairite wing of Labour were very bad indeed, owing to their disagreements over Iraq and civil liberties issues etc. A lot of the people most likely to be alienated by Corbyn within the PLP are those same MPs or their political successors. They would not be comfortable in the LDs and the LDs would not be comfortable with them. |
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Khunanup
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Post by Khunanup on Sept 24, 2016 23:14:33 GMT
To Ukip? I assume you wouldn't want him. No, to a new party (or failing that Indy). |
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J.G.Harston
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Post by J.G.Harston on Sept 24, 2016 23:41:19 GMT
TBH, we could do with the injection of Parliamentary experience and in some cases experience in govt that could come with some defections from Labour. In reality, the MPs most out of step with Corbyn are also those who want to take an anti-immigration line - which may make sense for Labour but doesn't really fit in with the LDs. They also seem to take the view that public sector reform is synonymous with more private sector involvement. Liz Kendall's argument that there is not a progressive majority in Britain may have merit but it is hardly a clarion call for Liberal values. Most of them also represent constituencies which voted leave, which would make joining the LDs problematic for both parties. Yes, I agree. I would also recall the mid-late Blair period when relations between the Lib Dems and the right/Blairite wing of Labour were very bad indeed, owing to their disagreements over Iraq and civil liberties issues etc. A lot of the people most likely to be alienated by Corbyn within the PLP are those same MPs or their political successors. They would not be comfortable in the LDs and the LDs would not be comfortable with them. If piles of Labour MPs started entering the LibDems it would turn it into a party that was not a party I would want to be a member of. |
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Pimpernal
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Post by Pimpernal on Sept 25, 2016 7:49:00 GMT
Jess Phillips maybe - preferably into a lake That would require her to stick by her promise... so not very likely... |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Sept 25, 2016 7:53:20 GMT
To Ukip? I assume you wouldn't want him. No we wouldn't and the feeling would be mutual. I don't know why you always assume people who are on the old right or Blairite wing of the Labour party are somehow a better fit with UKIP than Labour. Especially the latter are decidedly not. There is the small matter that Ian Austin favours staying in the EU which is ever so slightly at odds with UKIP's position. We had the same sort of crap talked about Simon Danzhuk - also a Eurofanatic |
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Sept 25, 2016 7:55:54 GMT
To Ukip? I assume you wouldn't want him. No we wouldn't and the feeling would be mutual. I don't know why you always assume people who are on the old right or Blairite wing of the Labour party are somehow a better fit with UKIP than Labour. Especially the latter are decidedly not. There is the small matter that Ian Austin favours staying in the EU which is ever so slightly at odds with UKIP's position. We had the same sort of crap talked about Simon Danzhuk - also a Eurofanatic I wasn't being entirely serious....but he certainly wouldn't be a good fit for the LibDems. So where he would defect to is the question.... |
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Richard Allen
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Post by Richard Allen on Sept 25, 2016 9:22:17 GMT
Jess Phillips maybe - preferably into a lake I will again be writing to her suggesting that she resigns as an MP on the grounds that she is bloody useless and an embarrassment to her constituents. Apparently she receives quite a few letters along those lines, I would imagine that some are less polite than mine, and she finds it rather upsetting. |
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Post by BossMan on Sept 25, 2016 9:40:23 GMT
Jess Phillips maybe - preferably into a lake I will again be writing to her suggesting that she resigns as an MP on the grounds that she is bloody useless and an embarrassment to her constituents. Apparently she receives quite a few letters along those lines, I would imagine that some are less polite than mine, and she finds it rather upsetting. If she were to resign, we could see our very own John Hemming back in the House of Commons. |
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Sept 25, 2016 9:47:11 GMT
She isn't going to resign from the Commons at least.
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Post by finsobruce on Sept 25, 2016 9:53:10 GMT
She isn't going to resign from the Commons at least. David Cameron was ahead of his time, obviously. |
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ColinJ
Labour
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Post by ColinJ on Sept 25, 2016 10:30:06 GMT
Yes, I agree. I would also recall the mid-late Blair period when relations between the Lib Dems and the right/Blairite wing of Labour were very bad indeed, owing to their disagreements over Iraq and civil liberties issues etc. A lot of the people most likely to be alienated by Corbyn within the PLP are those same MPs or their political successors. They would not be comfortable in the LDs and the LDs would not be comfortable with them. If piles of Labour MPs started entering the LibDems it would turn it into a party that was not a party I would want to be a member of. But possibly one that I would want to be a member of! |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Sept 25, 2016 10:30:21 GMT
It certainly started as spin. When Corbyn was first elected as leader, there was no reason to believe that the public couldn't be sold on a genuinely left-wing political platform if it was competently presented. By now it's been uncritically repeated by every part of the mainstream media for so long that it's probably morphed into a self-fulfilling prophecy. Twelve months ago, your party sold a competently-presented, genuinely left-wing political platform and got a load of media coverage and an increased vote. And got stuffed into a cocked hat by three Establishment parties and a hard-Right party that was basically subject to a cordon sanitaire. Can you identify ten seats that you believe voted Tory because they thought Labour wasn't left-wing enough? |
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Sept 25, 2016 10:50:25 GMT
To talk of Labour being "left wing enough" (or indeed otherwise) oversimplifies things. Lots of voters don't think in straightforward left/centre/right terms.
My personal view is that one of Labour's failings last time was falling between various stools and not really enthusing anybody much.
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Post by Lord Twaddleford on Sept 25, 2016 11:00:43 GMT
She isn't going to resign from the Commons at least. A great pity, really. |
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Richard Allen
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Post by Richard Allen on Sept 25, 2016 11:22:37 GMT
To talk of Labour being "left wing enough" (or indeed otherwise) oversimplifies things. Lots of voters don't think in straightforward left/centre/right terms. My personal view is that one of Labour's failings last time was falling between various stools and not really enthusing anybody much. As I said shortly after the election you were not close enough to the anti-austerity mob to to win over their support in significant numbers but you were close enough to them to alienate large swathes of "middle England". |
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Sept 25, 2016 11:30:57 GMT
To talk of Labour being "left wing enough" (or indeed otherwise) oversimplifies things. Lots of voters don't think in straightforward left/centre/right terms. My personal view is that one of Labour's failings last time was falling between various stools and not really enthusing anybody much. As I said shortly after the election you were not close enough to the anti-austerity mob to to win over their support in significant numbers but you were close enough to them to alienate large swathes of "middle England". Austerity but not as much and a bit slower just wasn't credible and satisfied noone. |
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Sept 25, 2016 11:32:33 GMT
Jess Phillips maybe - preferably into a lake I will again be writing to her suggesting that she resigns as an MP on the grounds that she is bloody useless and an embarrassment to her constituents. Apparently she receives quite a few letters along those lines, I would imagine that some are less polite than mine, and she finds it rather upsetting. I think she's simply a self publicist (the polite version) or to use a Scouse term, a gobshite |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2016 12:02:23 GMT
Actually, an Irish term, but brought across.
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Post by johnhemming on Sept 25, 2016 12:23:11 GMT
In reality, the MPs most out of step with Corbyn are also those who want to take an anti-immigration line - which may make sense for Labour but doesn't really fit in with the LDs. Migration is in fact a quite complicated question. I have personally never supported complete freedom of movement and I do not agree with subsidising people to migrate to the UK. For example a policy that encourages people to come here to sell the Big Issue is a complete absurdity - but that is what we have at the moment. The problem is that people mix up the issue of migration policy with issues relating to race and religion. There is always a problem when too many people migrate and it often impacts badly on the poorer members of the society that they migrate to. |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Sept 25, 2016 13:26:15 GMT
Although she would struggle I think in the Edgbaston which is currently being proposed. She would have a case I suppose for following Bartley green into the new Selly Oak & Halesowen seat (but hopefully there will be some improvements to the Birmingham boundaries before they are finalised). Gisela Stuart is definitely my favourite Labour MP now and like you say preferable to many a Tory such as Anna Soubry or Clare Perry
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