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Post by gwynthegriff on Jun 4, 2022 11:30:41 GMT
I've been asked to comment on an incident in a nearby (non party political) parish council which is warded (let's call them Wards A to D). None of the wards had contested elections in May.
A newly elected councillor in Ward A has produced a leaflet to introduce themselves. But they have delivered it to neighbouring wards that they don't represent - certainly to contiguous Ward B, possibly to non-contiguous C and D. This is, incidentally, not an accidental delivery to houses just over the boundary but appears to be a clear wish to deliver to the whole parish or most of it.
My initial response has been that - within the bounds of defamation, incitement or obscenity etc. - anyone can produce and distribute whatever they like, wherever they like BUT for a councillor to deliver an "I'm a new councillor, here are my contact details, I look forward to working with you all" leaflet to an area they don't represent is discourteous to the councillors who do actually represent the area.
I know that MPs have quite a strict protocol on contacts outwith their constituencies and in my Borough Council days we were very careful not to tread on the toes of neighbouring councillors in such ways.
Discuss.
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Post by finsobruce on Jun 4, 2022 15:49:33 GMT
I've been asked to comment on an incident in a nearby (non party political) parish council which is warded (let's call them Wards A to D). None of the wards had contested elections in May. A newly elected councillor in Ward A has produced a leaflet to introduce themselves. But they have delivered it to neighbouring wards that they don't represent - certainly to contiguous Ward B, possibly to non-contiguous C and D. This is, incidentally, not an accidental delivery to houses just over the boundary but appears to be a clear wish to deliver to the whole parish or most of it. My initial response has been that - within the bounds of defamation, incitement or obscenity etc. - anyone can produce and distribute whatever they like, wherever they like BUT for a councillor to deliver an "I'm a new councillor, here are my contact details, I look forward to working with you all" leaflet to an area they don't represent is discourteous to the councillors who do actually represent the area. I know that MPs have quite a strict protocol on contacts outwith their constituencies and in my Borough Council days we were very careful not to tread on the toes of neighbouring councillors in such ways. Discuss. Do you think this individual might be planning to make a run at a seat on a primary authority in the future? Either way they shouldn't have done it.
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Post by gwynthegriff on Jun 4, 2022 16:05:49 GMT
I've been asked to comment on an incident in a nearby (non party political) parish council which is warded (let's call them Wards A to D). None of the wards had contested elections in May. A newly elected councillor in Ward A has produced a leaflet to introduce themselves. But they have delivered it to neighbouring wards that they don't represent - certainly to contiguous Ward B, possibly to non-contiguous C and D. This is, incidentally, not an accidental delivery to houses just over the boundary but appears to be a clear wish to deliver to the whole parish or most of it. My initial response has been that - within the bounds of defamation, incitement or obscenity etc. - anyone can produce and distribute whatever they like, wherever they like BUT for a councillor to deliver an "I'm a new councillor, here are my contact details, I look forward to working with you all" leaflet to an area they don't represent is discourteous to the councillors who do actually represent the area. I know that MPs have quite a strict protocol on contacts outwith their constituencies and in my Borough Council days we were very careful not to tread on the toes of neighbouring councillors in such ways. Discuss. Do you think this individual might be planning to make a run at a seat on a primary authority in the future? Either way they shouldn't have done it. I think that's unlikely. Not least because we have 4 years (less 4 weeks) to the next borough elections. I think it's overenthusiasm in a new role; but overenthusiasm and discourtesy are not mutually exclusive.
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pl
Non-Aligned
Posts: 1,563
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Post by pl on Jun 4, 2022 16:20:34 GMT
I've been asked to comment on an incident in a nearby (non party political) parish council which is warded (let's call them Wards A to D). None of the wards had contested elections in May. A newly elected councillor in Ward A has produced a leaflet to introduce themselves. But they have delivered it to neighbouring wards that they don't represent - certainly to contiguous Ward B, possibly to non-contiguous C and D. This is, incidentally, not an accidental delivery to houses just over the boundary but appears to be a clear wish to deliver to the whole parish or most of it. My initial response has been that - within the bounds of defamation, incitement or obscenity etc. - anyone can produce and distribute whatever they like, wherever they like BUT for a councillor to deliver an "I'm a new councillor, here are my contact details, I look forward to working with you all" leaflet to an area they don't represent is discourteous to the councillors who do actually represent the area. I know that MPs have quite a strict protocol on contacts outwith their constituencies and in my Borough Council days we were very careful not to tread on the toes of neighbouring councillors in such ways. Discuss. Nothing at all wrong with it. Would I do it as an Indie? No. Would I do it as the sole representative of my party on the council? Certainly. The "convention" not to tread on other councillors toes exists more when they are all from the same party, or there isn't a strong "political" culture locally.
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Post by finsobruce on Jun 4, 2022 16:38:00 GMT
Do you think this individual might be planning to make a run at a seat on a primary authority in the future? Either way they shouldn't have done it. I think that's unlikely. Not least because we have 4 years (less 4 weeks) to the next borough elections. I think it's overenthusiasm in a new role; but overenthusiasm and discourtesy are not mutually exclusive. As you say then - overenthusiasm.
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Post by finsobruce on Jun 4, 2022 16:39:10 GMT
I've been asked to comment on an incident in a nearby (non party political) parish council which is warded (let's call them Wards A to D). None of the wards had contested elections in May. A newly elected councillor in Ward A has produced a leaflet to introduce themselves. But they have delivered it to neighbouring wards that they don't represent - certainly to contiguous Ward B, possibly to non-contiguous C and D. This is, incidentally, not an accidental delivery to houses just over the boundary but appears to be a clear wish to deliver to the whole parish or most of it. My initial response has been that - within the bounds of defamation, incitement or obscenity etc. - anyone can produce and distribute whatever they like, wherever they like BUT for a councillor to deliver an "I'm a new councillor, here are my contact details, I look forward to working with you all" leaflet to an area they don't represent is discourteous to the councillors who do actually represent the area. I know that MPs have quite a strict protocol on contacts outwith their constituencies and in my Borough Council days we were very careful not to tread on the toes of neighbouring councillors in such ways. Discuss. Nothing at all wrong with it. Would I do it as an Indie? No. Would I do it as the sole representative of my party on the council? Certainly.
The "convention" not to tread on other councillors toes exists more when they are all from the same party, or there isn't a strong "political" culture locally. In which case it should just be a general leaflet from the party concerned with a feature from 'our local councillor'.
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Post by gwynthegriff on Jun 4, 2022 17:12:41 GMT
I've been asked to comment on an incident in a nearby (non party political) parish council which is warded (let's call them Wards A to D). None of the wards had contested elections in May. A newly elected councillor in Ward A has produced a leaflet to introduce themselves. But they have delivered it to neighbouring wards that they don't represent - certainly to contiguous Ward B, possibly to non-contiguous C and D. This is, incidentally, not an accidental delivery to houses just over the boundary but appears to be a clear wish to deliver to the whole parish or most of it. My initial response has been that - within the bounds of defamation, incitement or obscenity etc. - anyone can produce and distribute whatever they like, wherever they like BUT for a councillor to deliver an "I'm a new councillor, here are my contact details, I look forward to working with you all" leaflet to an area they don't represent is discourteous to the councillors who do actually represent the area. I know that MPs have quite a strict protocol on contacts outwith their constituencies and in my Borough Council days we were very careful not to tread on the toes of neighbouring councillors in such ways. Discuss. Nothing at all wrong with it. Would I do it as an Indie? No. Would I do it as the sole representative of my party on the council? Certainly. The "convention" not to tread on other councillors toes exists more when they are all from the same party, or there isn't a strong "political" culture locally. The Council is 1 Independent and 10 no description. I would have thought a sole representative of a party would wish to strengthen their own position in their ward before appealing to people who cannot vote for them? Crewe & Nantwich had a strong party political culture and rivalry (and several groups) but I cannot imagine anyone who would have distributed an introductory leaflet to people they didn't represent.
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Post by johnloony on Jun 4, 2022 19:15:46 GMT
I think it all depends on why he did it, what he was thinking etc. If an MP did the same thing in other MPs' constituencies, it would be a serious breach of the unwritten rule / understanding that MPs don't interfere in each others' constituencies. How "serious" it is depends on whether he is opposing them on policy issues, or just being enthusiastic, or just being a bit thick. I think that you (or whoever/someone) should just ask him why he did it. He might not even be aware that there's anything "wrong" with doing it.
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Post by yellowperil on Jun 4, 2022 19:48:41 GMT
I have over the years had close dealings with any number of parish councils, but never with any ones that are warded, so maybe I just don't understand the culture of parish councils at this level of complexity. As far as I am concerned parish councillors represent their parishes as a whole, and I would have great difficulty limiting their involvement to a tiny part of the parish- the only warded parishes I have been aware of the wards have been little offcuts from the whole where electors are counted in their tens rather than hundreds or thousands. I can imagine it would be rather different if for example you had a parish with a number of separate villages and each village had ward status.It is terribly difficult to make definitive statements about what is the correct procedure for parish councils when they can differ so greatly in size and complexity.
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J.G.Harston
Lib Dem
Leave-voting Brexit-supporting Liberal Democrat
Posts: 13,607
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Post by J.G.Harston on Jun 4, 2022 20:10:30 GMT
I have over the years had close dealings with any number of parish councils, but never with any ones that are warded, so maybe I just don't understand the culture of parish councils at this level of complexity. As far as I am concerned parish councillors represent their parishes as a whole, and I would have great difficulty limiting their involvement to a tiny part of the parish- the only warded parishes I have been aware of the wards have been little offcuts from the whole where electors are counted in their tens rather than hundreds or thousands. I can imagine it would be rather different if for example you had a parish with a number of separate villages and each village had ward status.It is terribly difficult to make definitive statements about what is the correct procedure for parish councils when they can differ so greatly in size and complexity. In Whitby I live in "The Railway" (Fishburn Park), but the actual electoral boundary runs past the back of my house, and I live in and represent Town North. Before 1983 the border ran in front of my house. I regularly get, and deal with, enquiries from Fishburn Park. Though there's probably complications in that it's often releated to something I'm on a commitee dealing with, or for a long time Fishburn was vacant, or there's stuff I've picked up when campaigning in the borough seat which includes several town wards.
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Post by gwynthegriff on Jun 4, 2022 21:12:11 GMT
I have over the years had close dealings with any number of parish councils, but never with any ones that are warded, so maybe I just don't understand the culture of parish councils at this level of complexity. As far as I am concerned parish councillors represent their parishes as a whole, and I would have great difficulty limiting their involvement to a tiny part of the parish- the only warded parishes I have been aware of the wards have been little offcuts from the whole where electors are counted in their tens rather than hundreds or thousands. I can imagine it would be rather different if for example you had a parish with a number of separate villages and each village had ward status.It is terribly difficult to make definitive statements about what is the correct procedure for parish councils when they can differ so greatly in size and complexity. The majority of parish councils are indeed unwarded and the councillors are "elected at large" (lovely expression). However this case seems to involve a council made up of separate communities. On that basis I think it's more analogous to e.g. a district council where - in my experience - one would not be putting out leaflets encouraging people in other wards to contact you.
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Post by yellowperil on Jun 5, 2022 7:18:32 GMT
I have over the years had close dealings with any number of parish councils, but never with any ones that are warded, so maybe I just don't understand the culture of parish councils at this level of complexity. As far as I am concerned parish councillors represent their parishes as a whole, and I would have great difficulty limiting their involvement to a tiny part of the parish- the only warded parishes I have been aware of the wards have been little offcuts from the whole where electors are counted in their tens rather than hundreds or thousands. I can imagine it would be rather different if for example you had a parish with a number of separate villages and each village had ward status.It is terribly difficult to make definitive statements about what is the correct procedure for parish councils when they can differ so greatly in size and complexity. The majority of parish councils are indeed unwarded and the councillors are "elected at large" (lovely expression). However this case seems to involve a council made up of separate communities. On that basis I think it's more analogous to e.g. a district council where - in my experience - one would not be putting out leaflets encouraging people in other wards to contact you. I agree with all that, except of course on the last point when also campaigning at county level- I remember the complexity of fighting a county campaign in Tory held district wards when I was already a district councillor in the same county division, especially as good Lib Dems we didn't start the county campaign a couple of weeks before the county elections, which was of course when the Tories thought we should. And there was always plenty of overlap between what were county issues and what were district issues- or parish issues for that matter.
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Post by gwynthegriff on Jun 5, 2022 11:46:13 GMT
The majority of parish councils are indeed unwarded and the councillors are "elected at large" (lovely expression). However this case seems to involve a council made up of separate communities. On that basis I think it's more analogous to e.g. a district council where - in my experience - one would not be putting out leaflets encouraging people in other wards to contact you. I agree with all that, except of course on the last point when also campaigning at county level- I remember the complexity of fighting a county campaign in Tory held district wards when I was already a district councillor in the same county division, especially as good Lib Dems we didn't start the county campaign a couple of weeks before the county elections, which was of course when the Tories thought we should. And there was always plenty of overlap between what were county issues and what were district issues- or parish issues for that matter. I think we all recognise that the normal courtesies are set aside at election time. And then - hopefully - reinstated afterwards.
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Post by jm on Jun 5, 2022 12:52:53 GMT
Does anyone know where I can access reports of the 1971 census (specifically maps, which I assume were including in the reports) online?
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Jun 5, 2022 13:00:48 GMT
Does anyone know where I can access reports of the 1971 census (specifically maps, which I assume were including in the reports) online? I fear maps probably weren't included. I have some ward and civil parish monitors from 1981 and they included no maps which caused me some headaches (especially in Enfield). I have the full set of these for 1991 for which maps were included, but from what I've seen of 1971 there was less info generally and certainly no maps
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Post by jm on Jun 5, 2022 14:21:25 GMT
Does anyone know where I can access reports of the 1971 census (specifically maps, which I assume were including in the reports) online? I fear maps probably weren't included. I have some ward and civil parish monitors from 1981 and they included no maps which caused me some headaches (especially in Enfield). I have the full set of these for 1991 for which maps were included, but from what I've seen of 1971 there was less info generally and certainly no maps There are a few maps on eBay which show the boundaries of enumeration districts and wards used for the 1971 census. I was curious if these were included in the reports, but I suppose these would have been used by census enumerators. www.ebay.co.uk/itm/293677215676?hash=item446086afbc:g:QlIAAOSwsA9fKmcX
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Post by Clark on Jun 17, 2022 10:42:09 GMT
What and where was the Natural Law Party's best result in an election? Did they ever save a deposit in a seat?
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Post by finsobruce on Jun 17, 2022 11:01:42 GMT
What and where was the Natural Law Party's best result in an election? Did they ever save a deposit in a seat? I'm pretty certain that they never managed to save a deposit.
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ColinJ
Labour
Living in the Past
Posts: 1,961
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Post by ColinJ on Jun 17, 2022 11:11:35 GMT
What and where was the Natural Law Party's best result in an election? Did they ever save a deposit in a seat? Wikipedia doesn't tell us much about 'what and where'. However: "In the 1992 general election, held on 9 April, the NLP contested 310 seats in the UK, garnering 0.19% of the vote, with every candidate losing their deposit for failing to receive at least 5% of the vote." "In the 1997 general election, the NLP ran 197 candidates for Parliament in the UK, garnering 0.10% of the vote, with every candidate losing their deposit." "The NLP ran 16 candidates in the 20 by-elections held between 1992 and 1997, with every candidate losing their deposit. The NLP ran eight candidates for the 16 by-elections held between 1997 and 2001, averaging 0.10% of the vote, with every candidate losing their deposit."
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Jun 17, 2022 11:16:20 GMT
I don't know if it was their highest share but they got 0.75% in Buckingham in 1992. It was certainly one of their highest as their headqaurters was there at Mentmore Towers. They also got a relatively high share in Hertsmere (0.65%) due partly to the presence of the Hare Krishna community in Letchmore Heath
Looking at a few other constituencies in that general area, 0.3-0.4% looks more typical (and they got 0.19% nationally for 310 candidates so this would equate to an average of about 0.4%)
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