pl
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Post by pl on May 15, 2022 21:22:52 GMT
Indeed. Second oldest boundaries in the country. And actually not too far out of alignment considering all the development in East Herts. Only Buntingford is really badly under-represented. Of course, the 2023 elections will be on new boundaries. I suspect another review will be needed within 10-12 years due to massive house building in Gilston which kicks off in earnest just beyond the forecast period. and Eden is abolished, so where will now have the "oldest" boundaries? The LGBCE file available here has all the answers (and much more) www.lgbce.org.uk/resources/electoral-dataEden along with a couple of the others listed below are still technically with us. Based on the LGBCE file, there are 18 councils left with a "date of last review" in the last century. All have reviews currently underway except for the bolded ones. Most of the authorities for which there isn't an active review is for an obvious reason. It looks like Spelthorne will take the crown soon: Last review 1997 EdenLast Review 1998
East Hertfordshire Stevenage Epsom and Ewell Guildford Mole Valley Spelthorne
Tandridge Waverley Amber Valley Chesterfield Derbyshire Dales Last Review 1999 Craven
Ryedale
Lambeth Barking and Dagenham North Warwickshire
Nuneaton and Bedworth Southend-on-Sea
Somewhat surprisingly (ok unsurprisingly given LGBCE review criteria), between all of these authorities there are only 7 wards where the variance is over 30% The authority with the most recent review for which a boundary review is in progress is Stratford-on-Avon, which has a last review date of 25/3/2014. However, 1 ward has a variance of over 30% and 38.9% of wards have a variance of over 10%.
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Post by andrewteale on May 15, 2022 21:48:30 GMT
and Eden is abolished, so where will now have the "oldest" boundaries? The LGBCE file available here has all the answers (and much more) www.lgbce.org.uk/resources/electoral-dataEden along with a couple of the others listed below are still technically with us. Based on the LGBCE file, there are 18 councils left with a "date of last review" in the last century. All have reviews currently underway except for the bolded ones. Most of the authorities for which there isn't an active review is for an obvious reason. It looks like Spelthorne will take the crown soon: Last review 1997 EdenLast Review 1998
East Hertfordshire Stevenage Epsom and Ewell Guildford Mole Valley Spelthorne
Tandridge Waverley Amber Valley Chesterfield Derbyshire Dales Last Review 1999 Craven
Ryedale
Lambeth Barking and Dagenham North Warwickshire
Nuneaton and Bedworth Southend-on-Sea
Somewhat surprisingly (ok unsurprisingly given LGBCE review criteria), between all of these authorities there are only 7 wards where the variance is over 30% The authority with the most recent review for which a boundary review is in progress is Stratford-on-Avon, which has a last review date of 25/3/2014. However, 1 ward has a variance of over 30% and 38.9% of wards have a variance of over 10%. All of those boundary changes were actually implemented at the 2002 or 2003 elections except for the councils I mentioned in my last post and Stevenage, which was implemented in 1999. I wasn't aware of that one, thank you.
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Post by minionofmidas on May 16, 2022 3:05:19 GMT
I do not want to touch the sui generis cases. That would be scilly.
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Post by afleitch on May 21, 2022 9:02:55 GMT
So the excellent Ballotbox Scotland has collated the polling district results for Glasgow. Most of the districts are still easily collapsable into the old 1999-2007 wards; the last to be fought on the old FTP. So here are the results You're probably thinking; 'help' So here's a quick analysis. SNP support is across the city and elsewhere so wide that's it's hard to tie it to any set of indicators, but it does tend to be younger. It's much easier to look at the 'not SNP' pattern of support. LabourFor Labour it's very much tied to two factors; age and Tory-ness. Labour are dominant in the old middle class wards that used to vote Lib Dem and long before, Tory. You can see this in places like Kelvindale and Jordanhill. Here very strong Tory performances collapsed with most of the first preferences (which is what these tally) going to Labour. They are also strong in other older post-war peripheral middle class estates in places like Mount Vernon. They don't perform as strongly in places straddling the East Renfrewshire boundary (a council where the SNP made strong advances this year) in places like Newlands and Cathcart. More on that later. Labour also have some strengths but also some weaknesses in many of the post-war overspill estates; Drumchapel, Easterhouse, Pollok (but not Castlemilk) where there is an aging population and period of both population decline and housing demolition. A few other Labour successes are in the 'villages' of Robroyston and Carmunnock again for reasons above. In terms of 'sectarianism' Labour perform well in known 'Orange' boltholes in the city; places like Bridgeton and Shettleston. Also worth noting they won Kingston and Anderston which are the most Hindu parts of Glasgow. GreenIt's hard not to speak of the Greens without understanding the long standing 'osmosis' between SNP and Green voting in Glasgow. There are three pockets of Green support. The first is the 'West End'; not the mansions further west, but around the University. This is the earliest base of Green support; Hillhead. But Green support there isn't just students; with successes in Hayburn and Kelvingrove (home of the 'talked about in the Sunday supplements' Finnieston area), Green support is young (ie under 40) and those who have created areas of city living. The second smaller pocket is Dennistoun which has a similar profile. In the green pocket in the south of the city (which is where I live) Green support is strong in wards surrounding Queen's Park, and in another sunday supplement favourite; Strathbungo, But support is also found in more established but...'socially conscious' wards like Langside and Battlefield. In short, where you 'want to be', or 'you're supposed to be', votes Green. Also, the Green vote correlates very strongly where areas of 'No Religion' scored high in the last published census. SNPEveryone else. In all seriousness, the 'donut' around the Green wards in the south of the city is Sturgeonland which has overflowed much beyond where she represents. There is a very strong correlation with the Muslim vote with both the SNP and the Green successes across the city. The area around Govan is still a good area for the SNP as is Maryhill and most of the East End. There's still a very curious correlation between parts that voted SNP this year and where they performed well in the 'high water' locals as far back as 1968 and 1977, with some sectarian switching. Speaking of, the SNP still performing well in Catholic parts of the city relative to Labour; the East End, Maryhill, the strip from the Gorbals to Castlemilk near the South Lanarkshire boundary.
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Post by casualobserver on May 30, 2022 23:56:51 GMT
The authority with the most recent review for which a boundary review is in progress is Stratford-on-Avon, which has a last review date of 25/3/2014. However, 1 ward has a variance of over 30% and 38.9% of wards have a variance of over 10%. Stratford-on-Avon’s final recommendations were published on 1st March this year. With Lancaster’s final recommendations published earlier this month, that leaves Telford & Wrekin followed by Fenland as the authorities with the most recent completed reviews for which a boundary review is currently in progress.
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Post by jm on Jun 9, 2022 18:31:16 GMT
Council control in England & Wales following the 1972 local elections. Grey areas - Independent controlled/Non-political Black areas - No overall control
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Jun 9, 2022 18:53:00 GMT
Exalt
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Post by johnloony on Jun 9, 2022 23:00:45 GMT
Council control in England & Wales following the 1972 local elections. Grey areas - Independent controlled/Non-political Black areas - No overall control The boundaries for Croydon are wrong on that map. How come there are so many tiny areas? Did some of the old district councils have multiple exclaves, like "boroughs of" somewhere?
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J.G.Harston
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Post by J.G.Harston on Jun 10, 2022 0:05:11 GMT
Council control in England & Wales following the 1972 local elections. Grey areas - Independent controlled/Non-political Black areas - No overall control The boundaries for Croydon are wrong on that map. How come there are so many tiny areas? Did some of the old district councils have multiple exclaves, like "boroughs of" somewhere? A lot of the pre-1974 councils were ridiculously tiny. That was one of the reasons for the reforms.The "dotty" effect you see on the map is because most of the country was drawn up with a tightly drawn XX Urban District Council surrounded by XX Rural District Council covering all the countryside.
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Post by johnloony on Jun 10, 2022 0:11:34 GMT
The boundaries for Croydon are wrong on that map. How come there are so many tiny areas? Did some of the old district councils have multiple exclaves, like "boroughs of" somewhere? A lot of the pre-1974 councils were ridiculously tiny. That was one of the reasons for the reforms.The "dotty" effect you see on the map is because most of the country was drawn up with a tightly drawn XX Urban District Council surrounded by XX Rural District Council covering all the countryside. What sort of electorates did they have (e.g. those tiny dots in Pembrokeshire)? Even allowing for the fact that they were towns or cities, some of those little dots must be tiny in electorate as well as area.
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johng
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Post by johng on Jun 10, 2022 1:12:47 GMT
A lot of the pre-1974 councils were ridiculously tiny. That was one of the reasons for the reforms.The "dotty" effect you see on the map is because most of the country was drawn up with a tightly drawn XX Urban District Council surrounded by XX Rural District Council covering all the countryside. What sort of electorates did they have (e.g. those tiny dots in Pembrokeshire)? Even allowing for the fact that they were towns or cities, some of those little dots must be tiny in electorate as well as area. Wikipedia, of all places, has a good map of Welsh authorities of the time. Cardiff, Merthyr, Swansea and Newport were County Boroughs. Everything else is an urban/ rural district.
Some of the population levels simply beggar belief.
The least populated district, according to the 1971 census, was Llanwrtyd UD in Brecknockshire which had a population of 405. Narbeth UD was Pembrokeshire's least populated at 875 according to the 1971 census.
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Post by johnloony on Jun 10, 2022 4:27:43 GMT
What sort of electorates did they have (e.g. those tiny dots in Pembrokeshire)? Even allowing for the fact that they were towns or cities, some of those little dots must be tiny in electorate as well as area. Wikipedia, of all places, has a good map of Welsh authorities of the time. Cardiff, Merthyr, Swansea and Newport were County Boroughs. Everything else is an urban/ rural district.
Some of the population levels simply beggar belief.
The least populated district, according to the 1971 census, was Llanwrtyd UD in Brecknockshire which had a population of 405. Narbeth UD was Pembrokeshire's least populated at 875 according to the 1971 census. How on Earth does a council with a population of 405 function? How many councillors? A staff, with a chief executive? What were its functions? Sweeping the leaves and picking up rubbish, but nothing else? Did those small councils double-up with a few neighbors to do things collectively? Perhaps a load of them just didn't function properly at all, and had vacancies of members and staff, and maybe that's why they were abolished. I guess carlton43 probably wants to restore the whole lot of them. Perhaps he can explain how they will work.
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Post by islington on Jun 10, 2022 7:12:08 GMT
Wikipedia, of all places, has a good map of Welsh authorities of the time. Cardiff, Merthyr, Swansea and Newport were County Boroughs. Everything else is an urban/ rural district.
Some of the population levels simply beggar belief.
The least populated district, according to the 1971 census, was Llanwrtyd UD in Brecknockshire which had a population of 405. Narbeth UD was Pembrokeshire's least populated at 875 according to the 1971 census. How on Earth does a council with a population of 405 function? How many councillors? A staff, with a chief executive? What were its functions? Sweeping the leaves and picking up rubbish, but nothing else? Did those small councils double-up with a few neighbors to do things collectively? Perhaps a load of them just didn't function properly at all, and had vacancies of members and staff, and maybe that's why they were abolished. I guess carlton43 probably wants to restore the whole lot of them. Perhaps he can explain how they will work. I imagine it would have had a Town Clerk, which would probably have been taken on in a part-time capacity by some reasonably local solicitor. There would probably have been a typist, likely also part time, to deal with the actual mechanics of sending out letters.
You're thinking about it from the wrong end. Don't start by imagining a modern LA and scaling it down to a population of 405. That won't work. Think instead of a small charity or benevolent society with a small committee of volunteers and an income sufficient to employ a couple of part-time staff.
I'm not saying it was efficient or even particularly democratic (since I imagine a contested election was a rarity), and I certainly don't want to restore that type of set up, but it muddled through somehow and it has a certain charm.
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Jun 10, 2022 7:17:53 GMT
Council control in England & Wales following the 1972 local elections. Grey areas - Independent controlled/Non-political Black areas - No overall control The boundaries for Croydon are wrong on that map. How come there are so many tiny areas? Did some of the old district councils have multiple exclaves, like "boroughs of" somewhere? The boundary between Wandsworth and Lambeth is wrong also. Its the pre-1964 Lambeth with Clapham and Streatham being in Wandsworth
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pl
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Post by pl on Jun 10, 2022 7:41:55 GMT
How on Earth does a council with a population of 405 function? How many councillors? A staff, with a chief executive? What were its functions? Sweeping the leaves and picking up rubbish, but nothing else? Did those small councils double-up with a few neighbors to do things collectively? Perhaps a load of them just didn't function properly at all, and had vacancies of members and staff, and maybe that's why they were abolished. I guess carlton43 probably wants to restore the whole lot of them. Perhaps he can explain how they will work. I imagine it would have had a Town Clerk, which would probably have been taken on in a part-time capacity by some reasonably local solicitor. There would probably have been a typist, likely also part time, to deal with the actual mechanics of sending out letters.
You're thinking about it from the wrong end. Don't start by imagining a modern LA and scaling it down to a population of 405. That won't work. Think instead of a small charity or benevolent society with a small committee of volunteers and an income sufficient to employ a couple of part-time staff.
I'm not saying it was efficient or even particularly democratic (since I imagine a contested election was a rarity), and I certainly don't want to restore that type of set up, but it muddled through somehow and it has a certain charm.
I've found several (English) examples of multiple Rural Districts having offices in the local (Urban District) market town. They frequently seemed to share offices in such scenarios. In the 19th century, you also found them sharing with the Poor Law Guardians too. In some cases the RD meetings were even held in the local market town rather than in the RD itself. Depended on members and geography. In the examples I've seen, I've not noticed much in the way of "shared services" in the modern parlance.
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Post by jm on Jun 10, 2022 8:33:42 GMT
East Retford Rural District shared its offices with the East Retford Municipal Borough, with both based at Retford Town Hall. Worksop MB and Worksop RD also had the same arrangement. As pl says this was quite common.
The boundaries are from Vision of Britain and are supposed to be those in place as of the 1971 census. As there are so many small councils there may be some errors.
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J.G.Harston
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Post by J.G.Harston on Jun 10, 2022 8:43:24 GMT
I imagine it would have had a Town Clerk, which would probably have been taken on in a part-time capacity by some reasonably local solicitor. There would probably have been a typist, likely also part time, to deal with the actual mechanics of sending out letters.
You're thinking about it from the wrong end. Don't start by imagining a modern LA and scaling it down to a population of 405. That won't work. Think instead of a small charity or benevolent society with a small committee of volunteers and an income sufficient to employ a couple of part-time staff.
I'm not saying it was efficient or even particularly democratic (since I imagine a contested election was a rarity), and I certainly don't want to restore that type of set up, but it muddled through somehow and it has a certain charm.
I've found several (English) examples of multiple Rural Districts having offices in the local (Urban District) market town. They frequently seemed to share offices in such scenarios. In the 19th century, you also found them sharing with the Poor Law Guardians too. In some cases the RD meetings were even held in the local market town rather than in the RD itself. Depended on members and geography. In the examples I've seen, I've not noticed much in the way of "shared services" in the modern parlance. Whitby Urban and Whitby Rural did this, and during the war they started integrating their services and operating almost functionally together, which continued after the war. When the UDC offices were bombed the council moved into the RDC offices. It's something I've been wanting to dig into more, close to all histories of Whitby are pre-WW1. It was a sparkling exception for a book to be published Whitby Between The Wars. The only book I've found that touches on post-WW2 Whitby is a family biography, We'd Just Be Going Out Around Now in Whitby, a history of my grandma's cousin's family. It touches on politics as several members were in local politics, one of whom has recently retired from Loftus TC.
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Post by jm on Jun 10, 2022 8:50:51 GMT
Rural and Urban Districts exercised broadly the same functions as non-metropolitan districts do today, namely council housing, planning, rates collection, public health etc.
In 1971 the smallest Rural District by population was Masham (pop. 1,471) and the largest was Meriden (pop. 102,547)
The smallest County Borough (equivalent to a modern-day unitary authority) was Canterbury with a population of just 33,000
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Post by islington on Jun 10, 2022 9:18:52 GMT
I imagine it would have had a Town Clerk, which would probably have been taken on in a part-time capacity by some reasonably local solicitor. There would probably have been a typist, likely also part time, to deal with the actual mechanics of sending out letters.
You're thinking about it from the wrong end. Don't start by imagining a modern LA and scaling it down to a population of 405. That won't work. Think instead of a small charity or benevolent society with a small committee of volunteers and an income sufficient to employ a couple of part-time staff.
I'm not saying it was efficient or even particularly democratic (since I imagine a contested election was a rarity), and I certainly don't want to restore that type of set up, but it muddled through somehow and it has a certain charm.
I've found several (English) examples of multiple Rural Districts having offices in the local (Urban District) market town. They frequently seemed to share offices in such scenarios. In the 19th century, you also found them sharing with the Poor Law Guardians too. In some cases the RD meetings were even held in the local market town rather than in the RD itself. Depended on members and geography. In the examples I've seen, I've not noticed much in the way of "shared services" in the modern parlance. Braughing RD in Herts had its office in Bishop's Stortford, which was outside the RD's boundaries and not even particularly central in relation to it.
Looking at the map, I'm reminded that Watford RD comprised three separate uncontiguous areas located to the north west, the south, and the east of the town of Watford itself (which of course was a borough in its own right). I expect the office was in Watford town somewhere.
For mapping purposes I assume the OS regarded one of these (I'm not sure which) as the main body and the other two as exclaves (Det no.1, Det no.2).
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pl
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Post by pl on Jun 10, 2022 9:29:05 GMT
I've found several (English) examples of multiple Rural Districts having offices in the local (Urban District) market town. They frequently seemed to share offices in such scenarios. In the 19th century, you also found them sharing with the Poor Law Guardians too. In some cases the RD meetings were even held in the local market town rather than in the RD itself. Depended on members and geography. In the examples I've seen, I've not noticed much in the way of "shared services" in the modern parlance. Braughing RD in Herts had its office in Bishop's Stortford, which was outside the RD's boundaries and not even particularly central in relation to it. Looking at the map, I'm reminded that Watford RD comprised three separate uncontiguous areas located to the north west, the south, and the east of the town of Watford itself (which of course was a borough in its own right). I expect the office was in Watford town somewhere. For mapping purposes I assume the OS regarded one of these (I'm not sure which) as the main body and the other two as exclaves (Det no.1, Det no.2).
Braughing was one I was thinking of!! Stortford is slightly more logical than it looks given it inherited offices in Stortford from Hadham RD. Braughing took in Thorley Parish too (much of which has been annexed by Stortford over the years).
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