Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
Posts: 11,997
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Post by Khunanup on Nov 19, 2022 19:13:42 GMT
The Conservatives are failing at the moment because they are trying to do what the media is telling them to, rather than dictating the narrative to the / through the media. Government by headline has been the norm for 7 years. It's a terrible way to do things. |
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Post by carlton43 on Nov 19, 2022 21:31:17 GMT
I agree entirely with that first paragraph. When I was first a member, the party was socially, economically and politically well to the right of the present position, but crucially very homogenous and very close to the parliamentary party. Then the parliamentary party tended to be older and slightly more conservative than the then much younger membership. There were of course vocal minorities on the fringes with desire for more 'progresive' and socialist polcies, many of whom became ministers. Very gradually it morphed away from the majority like me to embrace women's rights, homosexuality, the EU, anti-hunting, neglect of the agrarian, anti-capital punishment, anti-corporal punishment, less fixated on the nuclear family and marriage, disassociated from the CofE and any form of morality, softer on drugs, less censorious on prostitution and gambling, far less concerned about sound money, deficits and debt, very financial services oriented, much more Metropolitan, far less northern, urban and Scottish, fixated on efficiency/money/low interest, neglectful of tradition/defence/standards. At each stage it shed membership and support but gained transitory ephemeral voters. Now it is a hollowed-out party with no essential core principles or ideals that I can discern, other than wising to deny Labour and to be in office even if palpably for no particular purpose. They are in the essentially mad position of having an 80-majority and in no way at all are they in power. A wholly ridiculous position. And to cement into place the total bifurcation, they have elected/appointed the three major strands (insofar as one can even identify strands in this modern party?) into office in turn, and then sniped at, briefed against and stabbed all three in the back, thus clearly showing that the party as now constituted is not just 'Not Fit For Purpose', but not capable of coalescing around any one person or group of policies without a vicios backlash from other factions. This cannot be permitted to go on in such a manner. There are now people advocation a coup against Sunak! For me he is clearly miles better than the previous two incumbents. Is he my first choice and my model? No, of course not. I am on record here stating much to his detriment and my disfavour of him. But his plans and policies have inherent cohesion and sense in a manner not see since Cameron. This party cannot drift from pillar to post and grasp at policies as if they were nettles. It has to calm down and to compromise and to be sensible and pragmatic. Or it may well be so badly damaged as to be dead. What may save it is the basic smallconservative majority in the nation with no other place to go than this tired burnt out hulk of a party. The 2nd paragraph made me think again you are Peter Hitchens!  I do identify very closely with his world view, his reasoning and his mode of delivery, but was there and doing it before him! |
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Post by carlton43 on Nov 19, 2022 21:48:53 GMT
That is essentially and effectively true. The party has had two Cultural Revolutions concerned with Powellism and the Monday Club which caused the backlash of Thatcherism. Then Modernism/Globalism/the European Ideal with the consequent backlash of Brexit. I was closely involved with the first and more peripherally involved in the second. The first revolution destroyed the party I knew and that I had loved. Heath was viscerally anti-Powellite, pro-immigration and pro-Managerial/EU/Globalism. I loathed that man more than any other politician in my life. He destroyed my nation and many of my hopes and aspirations completely. The utterly transformed aspect of much of urban Britain and our structural problems must be laid at least in part at his door. The utter tragedy was our failure to persuade Powell to stand as a populist token for us to fight against Immigration, Modernism and the EU. He was perfect for that job and his moment had come. We could have destroyed modern, semi-socialist, progressive, 'One Nation' conservatism stone dead and won over the Red Wall areas decades earlier on a subject of vital interest to them. He failed us and I am sure he later saw that mistake and went to Ireland as a sort of penance. The Brexit battle was essentially still the same fight against change, modernism and immigration written over a backdrop of the EU as a mere token of all we saw as the ills of a nation, betrayed by a new slick manergialist class with no soul and no nationalist feeling at all, just a love of wealth and success. And here we remain. Utterly divided now on nearly everything, with every faction and element with that party feeling utterly betrayed. Is that you Simon Heffer?  I know! I know! Yes. He does appeal to me and I have very many of the same views he has from the same intellectual and gut feelings. Very fine biographer. |
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,838
Member is Online
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Post by The Bishop on Nov 23, 2022 11:43:45 GMT
Even as others desert the party, ibfc has gone Tory. BJP presumably not available? |
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Post by ibfc on Nov 23, 2022 12:30:32 GMT
Haha no, the colour got added automatically as i joined the Blue room. And I was too lazy to change it.
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Post by AdminSTB on Nov 23, 2022 19:08:29 GMT
Even as others desert the party, ibfc has gone Tory. BJP presumably not available? Whilst at time of writing such a group doesn't technically exist, I can nevertheless change that state of affairs if asked...  |
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Post by John Chanin on Nov 23, 2022 19:10:36 GMT
Even as others desert the party, ibfc has gone Tory. BJP presumably not available? Whilst at time of writing such a group doesn't technically exist, I can nevertheless change that state of affairs if asked... Perhaps ultra violet could be used? |
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Post by AdminSTB on Nov 23, 2022 19:16:46 GMT
Whilst at time of writing such a group doesn't technically exist, I can nevertheless change that state of affairs if asked... Perhaps ultra violet could be used? ? I'm afraid that one's gone right over my head. I think I'll roll with a shade of saffron instead. |
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Post by ibfc on Nov 23, 2022 19:42:16 GMT
Whilst at time of writing such a group doesn't technically exist, I can nevertheless change that state of affairs if asked... Perhaps ultra violet could be used? Sorry, even I missed that reference. Violet? |
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stb12
Top Poster
Posts: 8,358 
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Post by stb12 on Nov 23, 2022 19:54:58 GMT
Perhaps ultra violet could be used? ? I'm afraid that one's gone right over my head. I think I'll roll with a shade of saffron instead. Can there be a non-aligned/independent room? |
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Post by Arthur Figgis on Nov 23, 2022 19:57:26 GMT
? I'm afraid that one's gone right over my head. I think I'll roll with a shade of saffron instead. Can there be a non-aligned/independent room? One room for each member? |
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Post by AdminSTB on Nov 23, 2022 20:01:22 GMT
? I'm afraid that one's gone right over my head. I think I'll roll with a shade of saffron instead. Can there be a non-aligned/independent room? With the party rooms they work because (there ought to be) a common thread that brings its members together be it matters such as party membership and/or common ideology or whatnot. I'm not sure how an independent/non-aligned room would work considering that the only common denominator per se would be the absense of any overt partisan leanings, and certainly no semblance of ideological coherance whatsoever. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2022 20:12:55 GMT
Can there be a non-aligned/independent room? With the party rooms they work because (there ought to be) a common thread that brings its members together be it matters such as party membership and/or common ideology or whatnot. I'm not sure how an independent/non-aligned room would work considering that the only common denominator per se would be the absense of any overt partisan leanings, and certainly no semblance of ideological coherance whatsoever. They tried that in the European Parliament and it didn't work either: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_Group_of_Independents_(1999%E2%80%932001) |
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Post by iainbhx on Nov 23, 2022 22:21:54 GMT
Can there be a non-aligned/independent room? One room for each member? Two for some of them. |
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Post by David Ashforth on Nov 23, 2022 23:40:49 GMT
That is essentially and effectively true. The party has had two Cultural Revolutions concerned with Powellism and the Monday Club which caused the backlash of Thatcherism. Then Modernism/Globalism/the European Ideal with the consequent backlash of Brexit. I was closely involved with the first and more peripherally involved in the second. The first revolution destroyed the party I knew and that I had loved. Heath was viscerally anti-Powellite, pro-immigration and pro-Managerial/EU/Globalism. I loathed that man more than any other politician in my life. He destroyed my nation and many of my hopes and aspirations completely. The utterly transformed aspect of much of urban Britain and our structural problems must be laid at least in part at his door. The utter tragedy was our failure to persuade Powell to stand as a populist token for us to fight against Immigration, Modernism and the EU. He was perfect for that job and his moment had come. We could have destroyed modern, semi-socialist, progressive, 'One Nation' conservatism stone dead and won over the Red Wall areas decades earlier on a subject of vital interest to them. He failed us and I am sure he later saw that mistake and went to Ireland as a sort of penance. The Brexit battle was essentially still the same fight against change, modernism and immigration written over a backdrop of the EU as a mere token of all we saw as the ills of a nation, betrayed by a new slick manergialist class with no soul and no nationalist feeling at all, just a love of wealth and success. And here we remain. Utterly divided now on nearly everything, with every faction and element with that party feeling utterly betrayed. Is that you Simon Heffer? This was posted yesterday in a Sheffield history group: "South Yorkshire is an infamous concept forced on us by the disgusting Edward Heath. I am proud to live in the ancient West Riding of Yorkshire." |
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Post by rcronald on Nov 24, 2022 9:11:01 GMT
Is that you Simon Heffer? This was posted yesterday in a Sheffield history group: "South Yorkshire is an infamous concept forced on us by the disgusting Edward Heath. I am proud to live in the ancient West Riding of Yorkshire." Most disgusting things forced upon us in the last 50 years were originally done by Ted Heath lol |
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nodealbrexiteer
Forum Regular
non aligned favour no deal brexit!
Posts: 4,439
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Post by nodealbrexiteer on Dec 22, 2022 17:09:02 GMT
Looks to have changed unless my eyes deceive me! |
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stb12
Top Poster
Posts: 8,358
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Post by stb12 on Dec 22, 2022 17:16:58 GMT
Looks to have changed unless my eyes deceive me! I’m going to take a guess the Scottish Tories’ handling of the GRA debate has brought him back into their fold |
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nodealbrexiteer
Forum Regular
non aligned favour no deal brexit!
Posts: 4,439
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Post by nodealbrexiteer on Dec 22, 2022 17:18:58 GMT
Looks to have changed unless my eyes deceive me! I’m going to take a guess the Scottish Tories’ handling of the GRA debate has brought him back into their fold I guess so too, speaking for myself if i were a disillusioned Tory it wouldn't bring me back even if i was happy with their stance(which I am-wish other parties were too) |
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Post by aargauer on Dec 22, 2022 17:34:14 GMT
Looks to have changed unless my eyes deceive me! I’m going to take a guess the Scottish Tories’ handling of the GRA debate has brought him back into their fold A non issue. Can't think of something I care less about - either way around. |
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