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Post by batman on Nov 18, 2022 20:28:12 GMT
yes strictly speaking you are right. But the SDLP is regarded as an ally in parliament and historically is part of the reason that Labour does not stand candidates in Northern Ireland. |
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Post by aargauer on Nov 18, 2022 20:38:01 GMT
yes strictly speaking you are right. But the SDLP is regarded as an ally in parliament and historically is part of the reason that Labour does not stand candidates in Northern Ireland. Is relique in the red room? |
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Post by mattbewilson on Nov 18, 2022 21:00:48 GMT
yes strictly speaking you are right. But the SDLP is regarded as an ally in parliament and historically is part of the reason that Labour does not stand candidates in Northern Ireland. Is relique in the red room? I have asked but generally people felt contributors with the socialist label shouldn't join the red room |
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Post by mattbewilson on Nov 18, 2022 21:02:43 GMT
yes strictly speaking you are right. But the SDLP is regarded as an ally in parliament and historically is part of the reason that Labour does not stand candidates in Northern Ireland. a point of contention. Many in NI wish to stand under the labour banner. |
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Post by carlton43 on Nov 18, 2022 21:02:48 GMT
I am fairly moderate on social issues, yes. I support trans rights, but not self-ID, I recognise there are issues with racism and think the party should be at ease with modern Britain. Even I have my limits though. I am aghast at the Channel migration crisis. Many of them are Albanian gangsters who are trying to game the, rightly, extensive system we have to identify modern slavery and protect its victims. There is a whole lobby designed to create totally open borders so anybody can come and the Conservatives should be going to war with them, but we're not. Meanwhile, alleged immigration hawk Home Secretary Braverman is just content to call the migrants silly names and that's it. How about flying every single one of them back to Albania as soon as they arrive, and if the mouthy Albanian PM, who coincidentally happens to be best mates with uber-Remainer Alastair Campbell, still has a problem with that impose tariffs to pay for the flights and the migrants' upkeep. I am glad she did a deal with Macron rather than call him names like Truss, but that doesn't even touch the sides. I also must admit that I am at a total loss to explain the lack of action against the environmental terrorism we've seen recently. Just Stop Oil and Insulate Britain are trying to hold the nation hostage, they're extremely misanthropic and have been attacking our cultural heritage, they've caused people physical harm, some irrevocably like that paralysed old lady. They cost the economy God knows how much by stopping people getting to work and I was horrified recently by the stories of people unable to get to cancer appointments, the articulated lorry crash they caused, the policeman they injured and of the man who missed his father's funeral and couldn't say goodbye to his dad for the last time. A Conservative government should be giving the police the legal cover they need to drag those malevolent idiots out of the road, physically if necessary, and putting them behind bars. Yet, all it's willing to do is carp from the sidelines. It's enough to drive any social moderate towards the social conservatives. I mentioned you specifically to illustrate how far to the left the party has moved on social issues! I'm not that much of a social conservative myself (I am culturally conservative/nationalist though), as I supported SSM even before Cameron decided to push it down the membership’s throat and an active member of a party that decriminalized sex work (I'm a staunch supporter of the movement to legalize sex work and consumption myself) and possession/consumption of marijuana. Dear friend, we epitomize the problems inherent in the party, in that I oppose everthing in this post of yours. We have massive set of differences on Economic policy Tax policy Social policy Interest policy Defence policy Immigration policy Energy policy (and a complete lack of one by the government) Debt and Deficit policy Transport policy Environment policy Global Warming polcy Covid Protection policy EU and other organisations policy Crime and punishment policy Medical and Care policy Education policy Cultural policy We are a coalition of at least 3 quite different parties and two of those are very broad church in themselves. |
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Post by Adam in Stroud on Nov 18, 2022 21:08:51 GMT
Thankyou to rcronald and Forfarshire Conservative for informative posts. I think they tend to support my outsider's impression that it is not so much one wing driving out another but the lurches about without really delivering on any particular ideology that is the problem. I suspect that if the Brexit referendum had voted Remain then Cameron would have been able to continue quite successfully with a socially-liberal, mildly fiscally-conservative party. He'd have had a few years of improving economic figures pre-Covid (and Corbyn as his opponent); maybe he'd have fleshed out his patrician-Tory "Big Society" ideas with some actual transfers of money from the state sector to "3rd Sector" (though I'm a bit dubious - not convinced he really thought that through adequately.) |
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Post by rcronald on Nov 19, 2022 3:44:47 GMT
I mentioned you specifically to illustrate how far to the left the party has moved on social issues! I'm not that much of a social conservative myself (I am culturally conservative/nationalist though), as I supported SSM even before Cameron decided to push it down the membership’s throat and an active member of a party that decriminalized sex work (I'm a staunch supporter of the movement to legalize sex work and consumption myself) and possession/consumption of marijuana. Dear friend, we epitomize the problems inherent in the party, in that I oppose everthing in this post of yours. We have massive set of differences on Economic policy Tax policy Social policy Interest policy Defence policy Immigration policy Energy policy (and a complete lack of one by the government) Debt and Deficit policy Transport policy Environment policy Global Warming polcy Covid Protection policy EU and other organisations policy Crime and punishment policy Medical and Care policy Education policy Cultural policy We are a coalition of at least 3 quite different parties and two of those are very broad church in themselves. I assume the post is a directed toward David and not me? Because I consider us to be pretty similar in terms of ideology. |
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Post by rcronald on Nov 19, 2022 3:52:38 GMT
Thankyou to rcronald and Forfarshire Conservative for informative posts. I think they tend to support my outsider's impression that it is not so much one wing driving out another but the lurches about without really delivering on any particular ideology that is the problem. I suspect that if the Brexit referendum had voted Remain then Cameron would have been able to continue quite successfully with a socially-liberal, mildly fiscally-conservative party. He'd have had a few years of improving economic figures pre-Covid (and Corbyn as his opponent); maybe he'd have fleshed out his patrician-Tory "Big Society" ideas with some actual transfers of money from the state sector to "3rd Sector" (though I'm a bit dubious - not convinced he really thought that through adequately.) Yes, although I suspect that people like myself would have eventually defected to a UKIP style party and COVID would have forced Cameron to wreck his fiscal policy (not as much as Boris-Rishi did, as Osborne you have pumped the breaks much earlier then Sunak), leaving the party in a relatively similar situation. |
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Post by aargauer on Nov 19, 2022 5:35:30 GMT
Most (or a large minority) of our active users in the blue room don't have a tory avatar at the moment 😅 Joking aside (and I see no reason why there shouldn't be a general right-of-centre room) I think that one of the problems with the Conservative Party over the last ten years has been that UKIP helped transform what had been a strand of (capital C) Conservatism into a separate ideological movement, (rather like the Bolshevik-Menshevik split) and the party has been struggling to accommodate it ever since. Some people claim that UKIP has taken it over, from my perspective it looks more as though there is an attempt to accommodate both sides which is continually leading to defections from both sides and occasional un-defections. I have to say I had both aargauer and Forfarshire Conservative down as fairly mainstream Conservatives and am surprised at both defections. Ukippers (of old) are themselves quite a varied lot. You get the ones that are essentially Redwood style right wing tories like Pete Whitehead , and then socially conservative protectionist ones like peterl , and to an extent carlton43 . The attempts to integrate them into the party essentially amount to a bit of shouting about (illegal) immigration and the NI protocol that haven't really amounted to an awful lot. From my personal perspective, where it has gone wrong is little to do with the socially conservative wing of the party, but rather that we've lost our core economic message. If the Conservative party ever had any unifying interest, it's that working hard should be rewarded. Yet we've put out a budget that absolutely hammers workers to support those that don't. I don't support the triple lock. I don't support the freezing of bands (the most important aspect for me) I don't support uprating of benefits over and above wages. I don't support the absolutely unsustainable energy price cap. I don't support windfall taxes. I don't support reducing the threshold for additional rate taxation. I don't support giving the NHS more money. I don't support freezing the lifetime allowance. I can barely think of a more economically damaging policy. With this in mind (and Corbyn long gone), I see no reason to support the government. This is an absolute betrayal of the core Conservative voter and a lot of us have just had enough. I don't want to vote for a socialist pensioners special interest party. I want a party that focusses on the next generation. There is a huge gap on the right of British politics as it stands. From here, I wouldn't be surprised if polling dropped into the teens for the Conservatives. I'm on a couple of Tory WhatsApp groups, and the universal reaction is one of horror. If that's anything to go by there'll be a serious attempt to get rid of Sunak. |
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Post by ibfc on Nov 19, 2022 5:39:04 GMT
It seems that you don't actually have to have a blue avatar to post in the forum's "blue room". Whereas the Labour sub-forum has a red name as a requirement to participate. The access requirements are so lax that even people who have actively chosen another party get in! Reform, Reclaim, Liberal (not lib dem) to name but 3. Its effectively a right of centre room. If this is the case, would I be able to get access? I had refrained as I am not a member or even a voter of the party but very much on the right side of politics. |
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Post by rcronald on Nov 19, 2022 7:07:18 GMT
The access requirements are so lax that even people who have actively chosen another party get in! Reform, Reclaim, Liberal (not lib dem) to name but 3. Its effectively a right of centre room. If this is the case, would I be able to get access? I had refrained as I am not a member or even a voter of the party but very much on the right side of politics. I mean, why not? Btw, you should ask one of the admins to give you a BJP party handle. |
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Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
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Post by Khunanup on Nov 19, 2022 7:26:02 GMT
Joking aside (and I see no reason why there shouldn't be a general right-of-centre room) I think that one of the problems with the Conservative Party over the last ten years has been that UKIP helped transform what had been a strand of (capital C) Conservatism into a separate ideological movement, (rather like the Bolshevik-Menshevik split) and the party has been struggling to accommodate it ever since. Some people claim that UKIP has taken it over, from my perspective it looks more as though there is an attempt to accommodate both sides which is continually leading to defections from both sides and occasional un-defections. I have to say I had both aargauer and Forfarshire Conservative down as fairly mainstream Conservatives and am surprised at both defections. Ukippers (of old) are themselves quite a varied lot. You get the ones that are essentially Redwood style right wing tories like Pete Whitehead , and then socially conservative protectionist ones like peterl , and to an extent carlton43 . The attempts to integrate them into the party essentially amount to a bit of shouting about (illegal) immigration and the NI protocol that haven't really amounted to an awful lot. From my personal perspective, where it has gone wrong is little to do with the socially conservative wing of the party, but rather that we've lost our core economic message. If the Conservative party ever had any unifying interest, it's that working hard should be rewarded. Yet we've put out a budget that absolutely hammers workers to support those that don't. I don't support the triple lock. I don't support the freezing of bands (the most important aspect for me) I don't support uprating of benefits over and above wages. I don't support the absolutely unsustainable energy price cap. I don't support windfall taxes. I don't support reducing the threshold for additional rate taxation. I don't support giving the NHS more money. I don't support freezing the lifetime allowance. I can barely think of a more economically damaging policy. With this in mind (and Corbyn long gone), I see no reason to support the government. This is an absolute betrayal of the core Conservative voter and a lot of us have just had enough. I don't want to vote for a socialist pensioners special interest party. I want a party that focusses on the next generation. There is a huge gap on the right of British politics as it stands. From here, I wouldn't be surprised if polling dropped into the teens for the Conservatives. I'm on a couple of Tory WhatsApp groups, and the universal reaction is one of horror. If that's anything to go by there'll be a serious attempt to get rid of Sunak. The Conservatives only unifying interest is the pursuit and welding of power. Any policy, economic or not, is up for grabs in that interest. Occasionally though, in times like these, they so lose their way in that pursuit that the exact opposite happens, anything they do appears to put them further from the pursuit of power and makes welding it much harder (as they alienate huge swathes of their own base). |
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Post by relique on Nov 19, 2022 7:56:02 GMT
yes strictly speaking you are right. But the SDLP is regarded as an ally in parliament and historically is part of the reason that Labour does not stand candidates in Northern Ireland. Is relique in the red room? Nope. It's quite funny you should ask, though, as my part of the political spectrum is in turmoil, and I have been offered to join three different parties in 2022. One of which would be a new one called "travaillistes" or "parti travailliste" (which would be the litteral translations of the labour party), a choice of name rather linked to the current debate of the left between those who say work and labour should be the core value of society (in a very marxist interpretation) while the bourgeois woke left say that leisures and laziness should be the core values. This "labour party", which is not created yet, would be an ally of Fabien Roussel, head of the french communist party, and the founders would be former socialists or left-wing republicans (like myself) allies of Arnaud Montebourg. |
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Post by matureleft on Nov 19, 2022 8:22:03 GMT
Joking aside (and I see no reason why there shouldn't be a general right-of-centre room) I think that one of the problems with the Conservative Party over the last ten years has been that UKIP helped transform what had been a strand of (capital C) Conservatism into a separate ideological movement, (rather like the Bolshevik-Menshevik split) and the party has been struggling to accommodate it ever since. Some people claim that UKIP has taken it over, from my perspective it looks more as though there is an attempt to accommodate both sides which is continually leading to defections from both sides and occasional un-defections. I have to say I had both aargauer and Forfarshire Conservative down as fairly mainstream Conservatives and am surprised at both defections. Ukippers (of old) are themselves quite a varied lot. You get the ones that are essentially Redwood style right wing tories like Pete Whitehead , and then socially conservative protectionist ones like peterl , and to an extent carlton43 . The attempts to integrate them into the party essentially amount to a bit of shouting about (illegal) immigration and the NI protocol that haven't really amounted to an awful lot. From my personal perspective, where it has gone wrong is little to do with the socially conservative wing of the party, but rather that we've lost our core economic message. If the Conservative party ever had any unifying interest, it's that working hard should be rewarded. Yet we've put out a budget that absolutely hammers workers to support those that don't. I don't support the triple lock. I don't support the freezing of bands (the most important aspect for me) I don't support uprating of benefits over and above wages. I don't support the absolutely unsustainable energy price cap. I don't support windfall taxes. I don't support reducing the threshold for additional rate taxation. I don't support giving the NHS more money. I don't support freezing the lifetime allowance. I can barely think of a more economically damaging policy. With this in mind (and Corbyn long gone), I see no reason to support the government. This is an absolute betrayal of the core Conservative voter and a lot of us have just had enough. I don't want to vote for a socialist pensioners special interest party. I want a party that focusses on the next generation. There is a huge gap on the right of British politics as it stands. From here, I wouldn't be surprised if polling dropped into the teens for the Conservatives. I'm on a couple of Tory WhatsApp groups, and the universal reaction is one of horror. If that's anything to go by there'll be a serious attempt to get rid of Sunak. Thus Truss was more your cup of tea but, presumably, with your sharing criticism of both her incompetence in presentation and preparation, and her unwillingness to set out sharp and immediate spending cuts? |
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Post by aargauer on Nov 19, 2022 9:47:14 GMT
Thus Truss was more your cup of tea but, presumably, with your sharing criticism of both her incompetence in presentation and preparation, and her unwillingness to set out sharp and immediate spending cuts? Precisely. Although even with the cuts I would have prioritised higher rate tax reduction and/or increase of the band before doing anything with the additional tax band - as I said at the time. Ultimately I'm incredibly disappointed that after 12 years nothing has been done about real structural reform such as a new secondary school system, with grammars and real technical schools / apprenticeships, reformation of the NHS model etc. As a young Family, the education, tax, and healthcare systems don't work for us. I took all that, but then record taxes at the end of their period necessitated by extreme covid policies and prioritising pensioners. You can only push a man so far. Let's see if labour do any better. There'll be more political capital to do unpopular but necessary things, like NHS reform. |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Nov 19, 2022 11:29:40 GMT
Thus Truss was more your cup of tea but, presumably, with your sharing criticism of both her incompetence in presentation and preparation, and her unwillingness to set out sharp and immediate spending cuts? Precisely. Although even with the cuts I would have prioritised higher rate tax reduction and/or increase of the band before doing anything with the additional tax band - as I said at the time. Ultimately I'm incredibly disappointed that after 12 years nothing has been done about real structural reform such as a new secondary school system, with grammars and real technical schools / apprenticeships, reformation of the NHS model etc. As a young Family, the education, tax, and healthcare systems don't work for us. I took all that, but then record taxes at the end of their period necessitated by extreme covid policies and prioritising pensioners. You can only push a man so far. Let's see if labour do any better. There'll be more political capital to do unpopular but necessary things, like NHS reform. I suspect only a Labour government could carry out significant NHS reform, but I doubt they would have the will to do it. |
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Post by Delighted Of Tunbridge Wells on Nov 19, 2022 11:35:19 GMT
As a strict and proud non-partisan I have no access to any private rooms I don't think there's one for us Indies 🥲 |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2022 11:41:50 GMT
As a strict and proud non-partisan I have no access to any private rooms I don't think there's one for us Indies 🥲 The campaign for a non-inscrits room starts today! |
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Post by Delighted Of Tunbridge Wells on Nov 19, 2022 11:51:17 GMT
I don't think there's one for us Indies 🥲 The campaign for a non-inscrits room starts today! Given the contents of the group of that name in the European Parliament, I think we'll stick with independents 🤣🤣 |
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Post by aargauer on Nov 19, 2022 12:27:33 GMT
I don't think there's one for us Indies 🥲 The campaign for a non-inscrits room starts today! Why did you leave the Lib Dems? Your political journey seems to have tracked theirs reasonably closely. |
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