|
Post by hullenedge on Aug 1, 2021 11:34:21 GMT
There's a letter in The Times (23rd October 1974) from D.MacDonald, Corstorphine blaming the extra Liberal candidacies in Scotland at the recent election for the Labour majority. He argued:- 'The product of these foolish policies (the Liberal interventions) was 59 lost deposits in the 68 seats contested in Scotland and victory for the Conservatives over the SNP in four seats (North Angus & Mearns, East Fife, Kinross & West Perthshire and Ross & Cromarty), but also, much more significantly, victory for Labour over the SNP in four seats (Dunbartonshire West, Lanark, Midlothian and West Stirlingshire). In those seats the SNP candidate would have been elected if they had taken a reasonable proportion of the Liberal vote. Had those Labour seats gone to the SNP Mr Wilson would not have had his overall majority of three. The possibility of much needed electoral reform and realignment of moderate opinion would still, therefore, have been very real and the prospects of the Liberal party in a less sorry a state'. Examining Mr(?) MacDonald's claims and a Liberal withdrawal in Kinross & West Perthshire would likely have led to an SNP victory. It is difficult to see how the Liberals would have withdrawn in Ross & Cromarty and East Fife given the February 1974 results unless there had been an electoral pact. A withdrawal in North Angus would have made little difference unless the SNP had captured practically all the Liberal votes. Turning to the Labour seats Midlothian and West Dunbartonshire can equally be discounted because of the size of the majority and the number of Liberal votes but West Stirlingshire could have fallen to the SNP whereas Lanark is a longshot SNP win with Liberal withdrawal. It is (just) possible that Labour could have ended on 317 seats and no majority and therefore owed their slender lead to Liberal interventions in Scotland. An earlier Lib-Lab pact? Liberal interventions in October 1974 in seats where they had not stood in February 1974 if anything indirectly helped Labour secure an overall majority (see Bury & Radcliffe, for example). Yes but the letter is about Scotland and the 'foolishness' of the Liberal interventions there.
|
|
|
Post by gwynthegriff on Aug 1, 2021 17:37:09 GMT
Dave Godin was also a lover of soul music and wrote for Blues and Soul magazine. Had some contact with him in my younger years. Really nice man. He was an anarchist and after his retirement said that he always thought Blunkett had " a whiff of Stalin about him" Only a whiff?
|
|
|
Trivia
Aug 1, 2021 21:09:39 GMT
Post by Adam in Stroud on Aug 1, 2021 21:09:39 GMT
Dave Godin was also a lover of soul music and wrote for Blues and Soul magazine. Had some contact with him in my younger years. Really nice man. He was an anarchist and after his retirement said that he always thought Blunkett had " a whiff of Stalin about him" Only a whiff? Whiff Of Stalin A subtle blend of ambergris, woodsmoke, Lada exhaust, boot leather, mud, and electrodes applied to human flesh. Pour homme
|
|
|
Post by nw12398 on Aug 4, 2021 18:28:38 GMT
Probably the only sitting parliamentarian to win a Gold medal (or any medal, for that matter) at Tokyo 2020?
|
|
|
Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Aug 9, 2021 9:58:05 GMT
|
|
|
Post by hullenedge on Aug 11, 2021 9:09:12 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Merseymike on Aug 11, 2021 9:26:15 GMT
Interesting that the researchers are Swedish, rather than French.
|
|
|
Post by David Ashforth on Aug 23, 2021 19:46:04 GMT
|
|
|
Post by hullenedge on Aug 25, 2021 8:41:30 GMT
|
|
|
Post by hullenedge on Aug 27, 2021 7:38:46 GMT
|
|
|
Trivia
Aug 31, 2021 10:53:07 GMT
Post by finsobruce on Aug 31, 2021 10:53:07 GMT
|
|
|
Post by hullenedge on Aug 31, 2021 12:03:35 GMT
Bucks the long term trend. Human nature suggests that this will not be a 'new style of politics'.
|
|
|
Trivia
Aug 31, 2021 12:16:01 GMT
Post by finsobruce on Aug 31, 2021 12:16:01 GMT
Bucks the long term trend. Human nature suggests that this will not be a 'new style of politics'. There are periodically articles like this which look at a couple of places and then extrapolate for the whole of the country.
Plenty of other independent groups on councils have subsided very quickly in recent times. they are subject to just the same political pressures as other groups, possibly more so.
|
|
ilerda
Conservative
Posts: 1,023
|
Post by ilerda on Aug 31, 2021 12:21:38 GMT
Also a lot of independents do not fit into the nice cosy localist apolitical image that is often presented. They can be just as partisan and have just as much of a 'political' agenda as any local branch of a national party.
They're certainly not all just a cross between the Dibley Parish Council and the WI. There are a fair few independents who are disgruntled former party political councillors/activists, and even some who hold very extreme views that would not be welcome in an established party. It annoys me when independents are presented as (or present themselves as) people whose only motivation is the good of their community, and party political representatives are somehow partisan machines whose only agenda is to further the interest of their party.
Being independent doesn't necessarily make you a good councillor, and being a party representative doesn't necessarily make you a bad one.
|
|
|
Trivia
Aug 31, 2021 12:25:17 GMT
via mobile
Post by Merseymike on Aug 31, 2021 12:25:17 GMT
Also a lot of independents do not fit into the nice cosy localist apolitical image that is often presented. They can be just as partisan and have just as much of a 'political' agenda as any local branch of a national party. They're certainly not all just a cross between the Dibley Parish Council and the WI. There are a fair few independents who are disgruntled former party political councillors/activists, and even some who hold very extreme views that would not be welcome in an established party. It annoys me when independents are presented as (or present themselves as) people whose only motivation is the good of their community, and party political representatives are somehow partisan machines whose only agenda is to further the interest of their party. Being independent doesn't necessarily make you a good councillor, and being a party representative doesn't necessarily make you a bad one. Yes, think I agree. Actually some Independent groups operate just like a party, anyway.
|
|
European Lefty
Labour
Can be bribed with salted liquorice
Posts: 5,491
|
Post by European Lefty on Aug 31, 2021 12:27:33 GMT
Bucks the long term trend. Human nature suggests that this will not be a 'new style of politics'. There are periodically articles like this which look at a couple of places and then extrapolate for the whole of the country.
Plenty of other independent groups on councils have subsided very quickly in recent times. they are subject to just the same political pressures as other groups, possibly more so.
Independents tend to suddenly do very well on the back of one local issue and then collapse when that issue goes away. There will be an increasing number of "anti-development" independents getting elected all over rural southern England but when the housing they don't want is built nobody is going to campaign to tear them down again and those areas will mostly revert to their natural political allegiances. Brexit-inspired independent success has the potential to hang around longer but eventually people will get fed up of councillors who focus on protesting about Europe rather than making sure the bins get collected
|
|
European Lefty
Labour
Can be bribed with salted liquorice
Posts: 5,491
|
Post by European Lefty on Aug 31, 2021 12:29:32 GMT
Also a lot of independents do not fit into the nice cosy localist apolitical image that is often presented. They can be just as partisan and have just as much of a 'political' agenda as any local branch of a national party. They're certainly not all just a cross between the Dibley Parish Council and the WI. There are a fair few independents who are disgruntled former party political councillors/activists, and even some who hold very extreme views that would not be welcome in an established party. It annoys me when independents are presented as (or present themselves as) people whose only motivation is the good of their community, and party political representatives are somehow partisan machines whose only agenda is to further the interest of their party. Being independent doesn't necessarily make you a good councillor, and being a party representative doesn't necessarily make you a bad one. Possibly I'm biased because I'm a party activist, but I prefer things to operate on a party basis. Partisan arguments are less disruptive than personal ones, and with party candidates you at least know roughly what you're voting for when you vote for them
|
|
ilerda
Conservative
Posts: 1,023
|
Post by ilerda on Aug 31, 2021 12:51:25 GMT
Yes localist parties can certainly have the exact same problems as national parties, and potentially even more as there is no structure outside the local area to oversee its activities.
The interpretation of the term independent also worries me. Technically it means not part of a political party, but it's become seen as a label that means non-political (or political on just one issue, such as housing development).
In reality, independent is a label that anything can hide behind. Yes you might be opposed to a new housing development on the nice green fields behind the church, but you might also believe in hanging benefits cheats, privatising the sun, setting fire to children, and turning Buckingham Palace into a giant brothel. There is no real way of knowing what an independent stands for beyond what they are prepared to tell you.
|
|
|
Post by finsobruce on Aug 31, 2021 13:15:10 GMT
Also a lot of independents do not fit into the nice cosy localist apolitical image that is often presented. They can be just as partisan and have just as much of a 'political' agenda as any local branch of a national party. They're certainly not all just a cross between the Dibley Parish Council and the WI. There are a fair few independents who are disgruntled former party political councillors/activists, and even some who hold very extreme views that would not be welcome in an established party. It annoys me when independents are presented as (or present themselves as) people whose only motivation is the good of their community, and party political representatives are somehow partisan machines whose only agenda is to further the interest of their party. Being independent doesn't necessarily make you a good councillor, and being a party representative doesn't necessarily make you a bad one. Yes, think I agree. Actually some Independent groups operate just like a party, anyway.It is almost inevitable if there are more than a couple of them and they stick around for a while.
|
|
|
Post by hullenedge on Sept 3, 2021 10:38:35 GMT
|
|