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Post by Penddu on Feb 28, 2016 3:24:15 GMT
Some interesting Glamorgan seats....but the Rhondda and Ogmore seat is split by a dirty great hill which is crossed only by a single road - the Bwlch mountain pass (clue is in the name). There are a lot of physical barriers to workable seats in central Glamorgan.
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Post by Penddu on Feb 28, 2016 3:32:42 GMT
I like the Disparity arrangement - but i would swap the Porthcawl area with the Sarn Aberkenfig area in the Bridgend and Port Talbot seats |
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Post by Penddu on Feb 28, 2016 10:35:05 GMT
I have been number crunching in North West Wales and i have divided the area into three seats quite easily - by adding the coastal area from Bangor to Conwy to Ynys Mon to give a Mon a Menai seat, with the rest of Conwy county forming a Colwyn Bay seat, and the rest of Gwynedd forming a Gwynedd seat. The Gwynedd seat is a little light but can be strengthened by adding Machynlleth.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2016 12:13:24 GMT
the rest of Gwynedd goes with the rest of Conwy to make something like Conwy South and Gwynedd, or Snowdonia and Llyn, or whatever. Dwyfor Meirionnydd Nant Conwy? |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2016 12:25:44 GMT
Well why not merge the south east of England with that of North Eastern France in the next Euro elections, after all they have so much in common...... I know the discussion of cross border seats between Wales and England is troll bait but there we are. As much as I love PC baiting I'm not sure this is it - wouldn't you agree that, in reality, Oswestry is somewhat less than 100% English in character and Chepstow somewhere less than 100% Welsh? |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2016 13:21:30 GMT
Perhaps there could be a boundary review for Wales itself...  |
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cibwr
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Post by cibwr on Feb 28, 2016 13:57:56 GMT
Perhaps there could be a boundary review for Wales itself... No |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2016 14:30:17 GMT
Perhaps there could be a boundary review for Wales itself... No "Salop into Wales" starts here... |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2016 14:45:10 GMT
I wasn't being serious, but to be honest, neatening up the border around Chester might make a degree of sense given that it goes through the middle of a road in a housing estate.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2016 15:52:26 GMT
I wasn't being serious, but to be honest, neatening up the border around Chester might make a degree of sense given that it goes through the middle of a road in a housing estate. And still divides Chester from its football team, I think? |
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Harry Hayfield
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Post by Harry Hayfield on Feb 28, 2016 17:14:18 GMT
I have been number crunching in North West Wales and i have divided the area into three seats quite easily - by adding the coastal area from Bangor to Conwy to Ynys Mon to give a Mon a Menai seat, with the rest of Conwy county forming a Colwyn Bay seat, and the rest of Gwynedd forming a Gwynedd seat. The Gwynedd seat is a little light but can be strengthened by adding Machynlleth. You do realise that in the abortive review in 2013, Machynlleth was up in arms over that idea. |
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Sibboleth
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Post by Sibboleth on Feb 28, 2016 18:14:48 GMT
You could never draw a neat border but as Wales will never be independent, why worry about it?
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J.G.Harston
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Post by J.G.Harston on Feb 28, 2016 18:29:04 GMT
You could never draw a neat border but as Wales will never be independent, why worry about it? It's always been a puzzle how the border follows the river, then jumps off, then jumps back on again, then jumps off and on again, and not just little bits where the course has changed, but great chunks like around Wrexham and Kington. And then there's the 'border for ordnance survey purposes' through the mud flats on the north side of the Dee estury that's ended up being fixed on the ground through land reclamation. If I had my way the border would run nicely down the main rivers from the Dee to the Wye. |
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Sibboleth
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Post by Sibboleth on Feb 28, 2016 18:40:11 GMT
That would be because county boundaries are rarely 'logical' (reflecting ancient land ownership issues etc) and because Wales was but a collection of counties before the 1960s, therefore the 'border' is just that of old county boundaries rather than something fought over and seriously disputed for centuries or whatever. I mean it is right that we still refer to the border as a March rather than a Border...
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cibwr
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Post by cibwr on Feb 28, 2016 20:13:56 GMT
Well iirc some parishes in Shropshire actually recently wanted to moved back into Wales, having been removed in the "Acts of Union".
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2016 20:22:54 GMT
Well iirc some parishes in Shropshire actually recently wanted to moved back into Wales, having been removed in the "Acts of Union". Up to the nineteenth century, Welsh was spoken over large parts of Shropshire, as far as the walls of Chester. Herefordshire included the former Welsh kingdom of Ergyng, which - ...was still Welsh enough in the time of Elizabeth for the bishop of Hereford to be made responsible together with the four Welsh bishops for the translation of the Bible and the Book of Common Prayer into Welsh. Welsh was still commonly spoken here in the first half of the nineteenth century, and we are told that churchwardens’ notices were put up in both Welsh and English until about 1860.There were still a few Welsh speakers in Herefordshire quite recently. |
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Foggy
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Post by Foggy on Feb 28, 2016 20:52:28 GMT
I wasn't being serious, but to be honest, neatening up the border around Chester might make a degree of sense given that it goes through the middle of a road in a housing estate. And still divides Chester from its football team, I think? I've heard two different versions of this. One goes that the border runs along the halfway line, whilst the other states that the club offices are in England, but the pitch lies entirely within Wales. The former seems unlikely, but given what a mess the border is elsewhere, it's far from totally unbelievable. |
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J.G.Harston
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Post by J.G.Harston on Feb 28, 2016 21:05:26 GMT
And still divides Chester from its football team, I think? I've heard two different versions of this. One goes that the border runs along the halfway line, whilst the other states that the club offices are in England, but the pitch lies entirely within Wales. The former seems unlikely, but given what a mess the border is elsewhere, it's far from totally unbelievable. Zooming in on the Planning Portal shows the border nicking the corner of the building, so maybe there's a cupboard that's in England. The entirety of the rest of the built structure is in Wales. |
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Post by Penddu on Feb 28, 2016 21:59:57 GMT
Although the border was effectively fixed in 1536 it was changed in 1972 albeit only minor changes by removing some of the exclaves and enclaves in the Wye Valley. I would not be averse to a modest tidying up excercise to remove some of the remaining absurdities, providing that:
(1) the overall change is largely neutral in terms of land area and population
(2) the affected populations vote in local referendum
I am not convinced about moving Oswestry into Wales and I would remove any discussion about Monmouthshire!
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Feb 28, 2016 22:45:38 GMT
That would be because county boundaries are rarely 'logical' (reflecting ancient land ownership issues etc) and because Wales was but a collection of counties before the 1960s, therefore the 'border' is just that of old county boundaries rather than something fought over and seriously disputed for centuries or whatever. I mean it is right that we still refer to the border as a March rather than a Border... There's an amount of this being deliberate. Remember that Owain Glyndŵr was from Powys Fadog. So it's not a coincidence that a century later Henry VIII distributed Powys Fadog between Denbighshire, Flintshire, Merionethshire, and Shropshire. Oswestry is an absurd 16th century gerrymander that deserves to be put out of its misery. There are smaller bits of dog-in-manger county boundary going on: Chirbury/Llanffynhonwen is absurd, even if virtually no-one lives there; the Presteigne area is just a mess; Ewias is mainly harmless, but Cusop parish is ridiculous on the ground (it's blatantly part of Hay; it's even got a Co-op with bilingual signage); and the eastern half of the former Lordship of Chepstow ended up in Gloucestershire. I would happily wave bye-bye to those western suburbs of Chester that if it meant that Henry VIII's gerrymander got undone along the rest of the border. That sort of thing isn't solely an issue in Wales. When the Midlands was shired, there seem to have been some deliberate efforts made to divide as many local powerbases as possible, to prevent anybody getting any ideas about the good old days of Mercia. Warwickshire would have had much more sensible boundaries if there hadn't been good reasons to split Tamworth down the middle back in the tenth century. |
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