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Post by gwynthegriff on Mar 8, 2016 17:12:16 GMT
Continuing on Greater Manchester and Cheshire East. In Rochdale, the two existing seats are both within quota and can stay as they are. Tameside and Stockport runs into the same problem as last time, which is the ward sizes in Stockport which force a split ward (probably Stepping Hill). In addition you have to split a ward in Tameside unless you add Oldham into the mix, which can be justified on minimum change criteria for Ashton-under-Lyne. It looks like my Oldham/Stockport/Tameside proposal from last time still works. In Wigan, 25 wards for three seats won't go without a split ward. The obvious change is to move Atherton into the Leigh constituency and split Golborne and Lowton West, with Golborne transferring to Makerfield, although the numbers would be pretty tight. Wigan can be left unchanged. Six seats for Cheshire East and Trafford doesn't work without a split ward, so I've added the Manchester/Salford/Bury/Bolton group into the mix to produce this surprisingly sane arrangement:  BOLTON WEST (77948). The current seat plus Hulton and Rumworth wards. BOLTON NORTH EAST (72603). The current seat plus Great Lever ward. BURY (71594). The current Bury North plus Unsworth ward. RADCLIFFE AND FARNWORTH (77546). Essentially a merger of Bury South with the rump of Bolton South East. WORSLEY AND ECCLES SOUTH (72316). Unchanged. SALFORD AND ECCLES (74161). Unchanged. BLACKLEY, BROUGHTON AND PRESTWICH (74570). Yes, it's tri-borough, but this is a coherent seat on the ground. Suddenly it becomes clear why Ivan Lewis is interested in the Mayor of Greater Manchester job - his seat is under threat of abolition. MANCHESTER CENTRAL (76181). Gains Charlestown and Harpurhey, loses Hulme, Ardwick and Moss Side. MANCHESTER GORTON (74507). Gains those three wards from Manchester Central, loses Levenshulme, Fallowfield and Whalley Range to Manchester Withington. MANCHESTER WITHINGTON (75270). Gains those three wards from Manchester Gordon, loses Chorlton to Stretford and Urmston and the two Didsbury wards to Manchester Wythenshawe. MANCHESTER WYTHENSHAWE (74315). Gains the Didsbury wards from Manchester Withington, loses the Sale wards to Altrincham and Sale. STRETFORD AND URMSTON (71721). Gains Chorlton from Manchester Withington, loses Bucklow-St Martins to Altrincham and Sale. ALTRINCHAM AND SALE (77226). Unites all of Sale within one constituency. TATTON (71441). The cross-border seat. Includes Bowdon and Hale from Altrincham and Sale and gains Prestbury from Macclesfield. MACCLESFIELD (73677). Expands slightly into Congleton. CONGLETON (73641). Gains some rural territory from Eddisbury. Not a nice shape but the alternative is splitting Crewe. CREWE AND NANTWICH (73435). Also gains some rural territory from Eddisbury. But that puts me in Congleton!  |
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Mar 8, 2016 18:26:44 GMT
I think that's because it was a deliberate time-travelling Labour fix. Gordon Brown got slightly lost on his way back to 1929 to cause the Wall Street Crash. |
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Mar 8, 2016 18:51:46 GMT
Incidentally, when did the Tories last win a ward in Andrew's proposed tri-borough seat? Prestwich was a Lib Dem stronghold pre-coalition, I thought?
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Sibboleth
Labour
'Sit on my finger, sing in my ear, O littleblood.'
Posts: 16,059
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Post by Sibboleth on Mar 8, 2016 19:01:07 GMT
They often won Kersal until the mid 90s, would have to check for the 'Bury' wards.
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Post by andrewteale on Mar 8, 2016 19:05:37 GMT
Incidentally, when did the Tories last win a ward in Andrew's proposed tri-borough seat? Prestwich was a Lib Dem stronghold pre-coalition, I thought? I think that was 1992 when the Tories won St Mary's and Sedgley wards in Prestwich. Since then Prestwich has settled into a pattern of two reliable Labour wards and one reliable Lib Dem ward (Holyrood), with the execption of the pre-Coalition period when the Lib Dems could briefly win all three seats as a protest against Bury Council's plans to close Prestwich High School (which, incidentally, educated me), and the Coalition years when the Lib Dems have had difficulty holding Holyrood. The Tories did get some decent votes in Prestwich in the pre-Coalition period and also came very close to gaining Kersal in 2007. |
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Post by andrewteale on Mar 8, 2016 19:09:40 GMT
Incidentally, dok is right that calling the tri-borough seat "Manchester North" is pitchfork bait.
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J.G.Harston
Lib Dem
Leave-voting Brexit-supporting Liberal Democrat
Posts: 14,846 
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Post by J.G.Harston on Mar 8, 2016 20:39:12 GMT
The River Irwell is a sensible border, but in the city centre is departs from the Irwell and goes wriggling around loads of back streets. Would the sky really fall in if Broughton was transfered to Manchester and the Irwell was the border for the whole length? |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Mar 8, 2016 20:41:35 GMT
I would call the seat Cheetham & Prestwich. It must be in the top half-dozen Jewish seats in the country
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Mar 8, 2016 20:43:45 GMT
The River Irwell is a sensible border, but in the city centre is departs from the Irwell and goes wriggling around loads of back streets. Would the sky really fall in if Broughton was transfered to Manchester and the Irwell was the border for the whole length? I'm not saying it would. There are probably not a lot of things I could care less about tbh than where the border is between Manchester and Salford, but it remains the case that that particular border is a very old one - possibly older than the Labour party and I was merely pointing this out to help refute doktorb's nonsense |
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J.G.Harston
Lib Dem
Leave-voting Brexit-supporting Liberal Democrat
Posts: 14,846
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Post by J.G.Harston on Mar 8, 2016 21:23:12 GMT
The River Irwell is a sensible border, but in the city centre is departs from the Irwell and goes wriggling around loads of back streets. Would the sky really fall in if Broughton was transfered to Manchester and the Irwell was the border for the whole length? I'm not saying it would. There are probably not a lot of things I could care less about tbh than where the border is between Manchester and Salford, but it remains the case that that particular border is a very old one - possibly older than the Labour party and I was merely pointing this out to help refute doktorb's nonsense WikiWalking tells me the Salford boundary dates from 1844, Manchester expanded northwards to meet it. |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Mar 8, 2016 21:32:15 GMT
Well there you go then - maybe Engels was behind it
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Mar 8, 2016 22:04:08 GMT
Incidentally, dok is right that calling the tri-borough seat "Manchester North" is pitchfork bait. Sure, but isn't that because it would be true? |
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Post by manchesterman on Mar 10, 2016 0:00:58 GMT
Incidentally, when did the Tories last win a ward in Andrew's proposed tri-borough seat? Prestwich was a Lib Dem stronghold pre-coalition, I thought? I only have stats for Bury MBC going back to 1998 but in that time: Holyrood was one by LD 9 times (Lab in other years) St Marys, Besses & Sedgley were Lab in all years Pilkington Park (not sure if included in this seat?) has been either Lab or Ind all years except 2000 when the Tories won..by 6 votes! Salford wards (I assume Kersal & Broughton) have been Lab all years since 98. I cant imagine Broughton ever being anything but Labour, but I do recall a couple of Tory wins in Kersal in the 80s (circa. Michael Foot era) |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Mar 10, 2016 11:32:45 GMT
Incidentally, when did the Tories last win a ward in Andrew's proposed tri-borough seat? Prestwich was a Lib Dem stronghold pre-coalition, I thought? I only have stats for Bury MBC going back to 1998 No you don't www.electionscentre.co.uk/?page_id=2393 |
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Post by manchesterman on Mar 10, 2016 22:36:55 GMT
oh wow! I just had a mini geek-gasm  |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2016 8:13:33 GMT
I've had a play on the new Boundary Assistant for Lancashire, but having worked "west to East", I've got stuck. Here's a rough guide to what I got before painting myself into a corner (specifically, a Blackburn shaped corner)
*Lancaster and Morecambe (based on Morecambe and Lunesdale)
*Wyre (based on Wyre and Preston North, taking in Longridge)
*Blackpool North and Fleetwood (largely based on the historic seat)
*Blackpool South (ditto)
*South Ribble (ditto)
*West Lancashire (ditto)
*Chorley (ditto)
*Fylde (ditto)
*Pendle and Rural Burnley (largely based on the Zombie Review)
*Burnley and Accrington (ditto)
*Ribble Valley (ditto)
*Preston (ditto)
Both Rossendale and Darwen, and Blackburn, were proving difficult to get right, so that's where I'll begin next time....
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2016 16:28:05 GMT
Another little play and it's still East Lancashire giving me problems. "Pendle and Clitheroe" seems unavoidable now, as does RV encroaching on Hyndburn. My Chorley looks horrible, taking in Farington from around Leyland, and Preston moves south of the River into Walton-le-Dale....
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Post by andrewteale on Mar 11, 2016 18:54:49 GMT
I appear to have come up with a plan for the North West which doesn't split a single ward.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2016 20:18:36 GMT
I appear to have come up with a plan for the North West which doesn't split a single ward. I would like to see your solution for the East.... |
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Post by andrewteale on Mar 11, 2016 20:21:54 GMT
Lancastrian Merseyside, which is allocated ten seats. SOUTHPORT (74641). The change here is forced even though Formby is split as a result: gains Harrington ward from Sefton Central. SEFTON CENTRAL (75368). Loses Harrington ward to Sefton Central, gains Church and Victoria wards from Bootle, thus uniting Crosby in one constituency. ST HELENS NORTH (72060). ST HELENS SOUTH AND WHISTON (74885). GARSTON AND HALEWOOD (71942). All unchanged. That leaves five seats for Bootle and the rest of Knowsley and Liverpool where there are currently six. The options for expanding Bootle into Liverpool are very constrained by ward sizes and the only arrangement which works is to transfer Anfield, County and Kirkdale wards, thus giving BOOTLE AND KIRKDALE (77195). Knowsley could stand on its own but to improve wiggle room in the remainder of Liverpool I have transferred Swanside ward into a Liverpool constituency. That gives a reduced KNOWSLEY (72397). I have arranged the three remaining Liverpool seats thus (names may be changed to suit): LIVERPOOL CROXTETH (74616): Clubmoor, Croxteth, Fazackerley, Norris Green, Warbreck, West Derby, Yew Tree. LIVERPOOL OLD SWAN (74393): Childwall, Everton, Kensington/Fairfield, Knotty Ash, Old Swan, Tuebrook/Stoneycroft, Wavertree, plus Swanside from Knowsley. LIVERPOOL TOXTETH (75730): Central, Church, Greenbank, Mossley Hill, Picton, Princes Park, Riverside, St Michael's.  |
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