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Post by andrewteale on Jun 17, 2016 18:47:19 GMT
This thread seems to have agreed over 20+ pages on what the Commission will propose I have a feeling we probably thought that at this stage of the last review, and then the Commission turned up with a right dog's breakfast. islington is aware of my reservations on the placing of Radcliffe North and the cross-Ship Canal seat. Other than that, his plan for the North West is fantastic and I'm happy to support it. |
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Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
Posts: 12,060
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Post by Khunanup on Jun 17, 2016 20:31:25 GMT
Doktor B is quite right. There are numerous variations but a high degree of consensus. I found the decision whether to treat Liverpool separately was finely balanced. It's obviously desirable in itself, but it causes problems elsewhere. But on the plus side, it's enabled me to get rid of the current division of Prescot. Anyway, to conclude the North West (also without any ward splits):  NW-F (Knowsley, St Helens, Sefton): 439450 = 5.88 = 6This group is awkwardly small for 6 seats but it can be done. BOOTLE AND CROSBY - 76615 HUYTON AND HALEWOOD - 72123. An inelegantly shaped seat, and it's a shame it had to include a ward from St Helens. But its internal comms are good and, with all the seats in Knowsley and St Helens necessarily on the small side, options are limited. KIRKBY AND MAGHULL - 72686. Some outskirts of Kirkby have been trimmed but the bulk of the town is in the seat. ST HELENS NORTH - 72060 ST HELENS SOUTH AND PRESCOT - 71325. The inclusion of Cherryfield ward is really ungainly (but still the best solution so thanks to Greenhert for it); on the other hand, it's a pleasure to unite Prescot. SOUTHPORT - 74641 NW-G (Liverpool): 303978 = 4.07 = 4LIVERPOOL CENTRAL - 76144. I wanted a seat based on the present Riverside (thus including the heart of the city) but I've changed the name to reflect the inclusion of some wards, e.g. Wavertree, that are well away from the Mersey. LIVERPOOL GARSTON - 76265 LIVERPOOL WALTON - 77628 LIVERPOOL WEST DERBY - 73941 NW-H (Cheshire West & Chester, Halton, Warrington, Wirral): 737434 = 9.86 = 10
BIRKENHEAD - 72003
MID CHESHIRE - 73317
WEST CHESHIRE - 73389
CHESTER - 73723
ELLESMERE PORT AND NESTON - 73599. On reflection I feel that Eastham is the best Wirral ward to include.
WALLASEY - 76052
WARRINGTON NORTH - 71671
WARRINGTON SOUTH - 74460
WIDNES AND RUNCORN - 73158. No longer includes the Halton village/castle area (which is in Mid Cheshire) so a name change is needed.
WIRRAL - 76062. There used to be a seat of this name covering much of the peninsula (but not Birkenhead or Wallasey). 'Bebington and Hoylake' would be another possibility.
Will people please stop splitting my home village between three seats! How many times... |
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YL
Non-Aligned
Either Labour leaning or Lib Dem leaning but not sure which
Posts: 4,918
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Post by YL on Jun 19, 2016 20:32:27 GMT
I thought I'd try to come up with my own plan for Cheshire and Greater Manchester. Inevitably, I'll have been influenced a bit by plans posted by others, but I tried to start from scratch and see what I ended up with.
I'm not sure that I can really endorse it; there are a few things I'm not terribly happy with, such as a cavalier disregard for the admittedly anachronistic Manchester city boundary and a total mess in Stockport. I think the latter would be improved by a bit of ward splitting, but haven't worked out the details of that.
However, here goes.
Wirral minus Heswall:
Wirral West (75,275): existing plus the two Moreton wards.
Bebington (76,128): existing Wirral South minus Heswall, plus Rock Ferry, Prenton, Oxton.
Birkenhead & Wallasey (72,931): rest of Wirral other than Heswall.
Cheshire West & Chester and Halton, with Heswall and a small part of Cheshire East:
Ellesmere Port & South Wirral (76,811): existing Ellesmere Port & Neston plus Heswall.
City of Chester (73,723): realigned to new ward boundaries
Halton (73,814): existing plus Beechwood
Northwich (72,921): rest of Halton, plus wards of CWaC from Weaver & Cuddington, Hartford & Greenbank, Davenham & Moulton, Shakerley north-eastwards.
Eddisbury (73,721): rest of CWaC, plus Bunbury, Wrenbury and Audlem from Cheshire East.
Warrington:
Warrington North (76,281): existing plus Whittle Hall, Great Sankey, Penketh & Cuerdley, minus Orford, Fairfield & Howley, Rixton & Woolston.
Warrington South (76,708): rest of Warrington.
Cheshire East minus Audlem etc., Poynton, Knutsford:
Crewe & Nantwich (72,326): realigned to new ward boundaries.
Congleton (77,535): gains Chelford and Gawsworth.
Macclesfield (77,451): loses the Poynton/Disley wards and Gawsworth, gains Alderley Edge and all Wilmslow wards.
Stockport, Poynton, Tameside minus Droylsden:
This is pretty ugly. Splitting one ward in each borough would allow the border not to be crossed, and a generally better map, at least in Stockport.
Hazel Grove & Poynton (75,328): the Poynton wards, Disley, the Bramhall and Marple wards, Hazel Grove, Stepping Hill.
Cheadle (71,280): Heald Green, Cheadle & Gatley, the Cheadle Hulme wards, Davenport & Cale Green, Manor, Offerton.
Stockport (71,328): rest of Stockport minus Reddish North.
Stalybridge & Hyde (78,223): existing plus Dukinfield.
Ashton-under-Lyne (78,242): loses Failsworth, Droylsden and Dukinfield, gains Audenshaw, Denton wards and Reddish North.
Manchester plus bits, Trafford plus Knutsford:
Altrincham & Knutsford (71,127): Trafford wards from Bowdon, Broadheath, Timperley, Village southwards, Mobberley, Knutsford and High Legh.
Sale & Urmston (74,925): rest of Trafford except Gorse Hill, Stretford, Longford, Clifford.
Manchester Chorlton & Stretford (75,228): those last four Trafford wards, plus Chorlton, Chorlton Park, Whalley Range, Moss Side.
Manchester Wythenshawe (74,315): Manchester from the Didsburys southwards.
Manchester Gorton & Withington (75,870): Old Moat, Fallowfield, Withington, Burnage, Levenshulme, the Gorton wards.
Manchester Central & Salford Quays (77,982): Rusholme, Longsight, Ardwick, Bradford, Hulme, City Centre, then Ordsall and Langworthy in Salford.
Manchester Moston & Droylsden (72,739): the Droylsden wards of Tameside, Ancoats & Clayton, Miles Platting & Newton Heath, Harpurhey, Moston, Charlestown.
Manchester Blackley & Prestwich (73,397): rest of Manchester, in Bury Sedgley, Besses, St. Mary's, Pilkington Park, Holyrood.
Most of Salford:
Worsley & Swinton (72,001): existing Worsley & Eccles South less Winton, Barton, plus Swinton wards.
Salford North & Eccles (73,104): rest of Salford.
Or just leave Worsley & Eccles South unchanged.
Bolton, Bury minus Prestwich area, Atherton ward of Wigan:
Bury (71,594): existing Bury North plus Unsworth.
Bolton South & Radcliffe (71,140): existing Bolton South East minus Rumworth and Harper Green, plus Breightmet and Radcliffe wards of Bury.
Bolton North (74,915): existing North East plus Smithills and Heaton & Lostock, minus Breightmet.
Bolton West (77,384): rest of Bolton, plus Atherton.
Wigan minus Atherton:
Leigh (73,070)
Makerfield (71,857)
Wigan (72,733)
all unchanged
Rochdale:
Rochdale (72,530)
Heywood & Middleton (75,880)
both unchanged
Oldham:
Oldham East & Saddleworth (77,067): existing plus Medlock Vale.
Oldham West & Royton (76,684): rest of Oldham
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2016 1:20:33 GMT
This thread seems to have agreed over 20+ pages on what the Commission will propose I have a feeling we probably thought that at this stage of the last review, and then the Commission turned up with a right dog's breakfast. Fair. |
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Post by AustralianSwingVoter on Jun 22, 2016 12:02:38 GMT
Cumberland & Westmorland Cumberland Carlisle 76825 Allerdale & Eden 71415 Copeland 75569 Westmorland Westmorland 72099  |
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Post by AustralianSwingVoter on Jun 22, 2016 12:17:30 GMT
Lancashire Lancaster 76426 Valleys of Ribble, Lune & Wyre (how very doktorb) alternative name Lunesdale, Wyre & Ribble Valley or just Ribble Valley & Wyre 76213 Blackpool North 73908 Fylde 71765 Blackpool South 72993 Preston 77324 Pendle 73223 Burnley 75337 Hyndburn 77082 Blackburn 77126 Rossendale & Darwen 72979 South Ribble 74984 Chorley 75588 West Lancashire 76361  |
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Jun 22, 2016 22:12:05 GMT
I don't think respecting the Liverpool boundary is particularly important, but if you are doing that then you certainly shouldn't be splitting Kirkby. Which means you have to go into Halton. I'd suggest something like this:
Southport (74641) - gains Harington
Bootle (76615) - gains Blundellsands, reunifies Crosby
Sefton Central & Knowsley North (78110) - the rest of Sefton plus Kirkby
St Helens North (72060) - unchanged
St Helens South & Whiston (74885) - unchanged
Knowsley (75247) - the rest of Knowsley, plus Ditton, Hale and Hough Green from Halton
Halton (77424) - the rest of Halton except for Daresbury
Unfortunately you've still got the split of Prescot, but that at least is least change. I suspect a more serious problem would be knock-on consequences in Cheshire.
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Post by AustralianSwingVoter on Jun 22, 2016 23:17:07 GMT
Yes East Anglian Lefty but Liverpool is perfect for 4 seats and I just think that you shouldn't unnecessarily cross LA boundaries.
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Post by AustralianSwingVoter on Jun 22, 2016 23:17:47 GMT
And Sefton, Knowsley & St Helens are perfect for 6 seats
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Foggy
Non-Aligned
Yn Ennill Yma
Posts: 6,144 
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Post by Foggy on Jun 23, 2016 0:23:58 GMT
A bit of you Barrow seat is in Westmorland, but it's mostly in an historically detached part of Lancashire. Bits of your 'Westmorland' were traditionally in either Cumberland or Yorkshire. I totally agree, East Anglian Lefty. |
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Post by AustralianSwingVoter on Jun 23, 2016 2:08:04 GMT
Sorry for my ghastly english, I was posting at about 11pm
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Foggy
Non-Aligned
Yn Ennill Yma
Posts: 6,144
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Post by Foggy on Jun 23, 2016 2:21:13 GMT
When I was 13, I didn't regard 11pm as particularly late! Maybe my parents were too lenient and that stunted my development.
That said, I didn't have internet access at home until I was nearly 17 either (which was dial-up... and this is still all before you were born). Thank goodness for Channel 5 after 11pm on Thursdays and Fridays.
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Post by AustralianSwingVoter on Jun 23, 2016 12:54:02 GMT
my usual bedtime is 8:30 - 9:00
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Jun 23, 2016 20:04:29 GMT
Yes East Anglian Lefty but Liverpool is perfect for 4 seats and I just think that you shouldn't unnecessarily cross LA boundaries. Yes, but is crossing the Sefton-Knowsley boundary any better? Local authority boundaries should be avoided where possible, but there are other relevant considerations. Where there's a map that crosses local authority boundaries but splits fewer settlements and causes less change to existing constituencies, it should probably be preferred. |
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Foggy
Non-Aligned
Yn Ennill Yma
Posts: 6,144
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Post by Foggy on Jun 23, 2016 20:16:16 GMT
my usual bedtime is 8:30 - 9:00 Oh, how quaint! That was my bedtime when I was about 9. At 13, I was just finishing up my homework around then. It makes one wonder at what time comedy and sports programmes air in Australia... Anyway, back on topic. I'd be favour of tearing up the map completely in areas with dreadful current boundaries if the legislation allowed for it. I have only seen one decent argument for not crossing LA borders since this review began, but even taking that into account, it cannot under the new rules be a primary concern. That said, in the specific case being talked about here, I should point out that I avoided crossing the Sefton-Knowsley border in my proposals. |
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Post by AustralianSwingVoter on Jun 23, 2016 21:14:44 GMT
TV HOUR - 7pm - 9pm
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Post by AustralianSwingVoter on Jun 24, 2016 10:18:17 GMT
Cumberland & Westmorland Cumberland 3 SEATS Carlisle 76825 Allerdale & Eden 71415 Copeland 75569 Westmorland 2 SEATS Westmorland 77161 Barrow 73027 |
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Post by AustralianSwingVoter on Jun 24, 2016 10:18:28 GMT
Merseyside WITHOUT WIRRAL No ward splits Liverpool 4 SEATS Liverpool Walton 78029 Liverpool Wavertree 73681 Liverpool Riverside 76003 Liverpool Garston 76265 Sefton, Knowsley & St Helens 6 SEATS Southport 74641 Sefton & Kirkby 73411 Bootle & Crosby 76615 Knowsley 72343 Yes St Helens South & Halewood 71169 Yes St Helens North 71271 Yes  |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2016 17:28:23 GMT
Adrian I've seen your Lancs proposals. Crossing into Southport isn't necessary, i think West Lancs can be a seat on its own under current numbers. Ingol should remain in Preston, it was an ill fit when it was in Fylde; there's no reason to add it to such a large rural consistency as you do. That aside, I like much of what you've come up with.
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iain
Lib Dem
Posts: 11,455
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Post by iain on Jul 6, 2016 19:37:35 GMT
Adrian I've seen your Lancs proposals. Crossing into Southport isn't necessary, i think West Lancs can be a seat on its own under current numbers. Ingol should remain in Preston, it was an ill fit when it was in Fylde; there's no reason to add it to such a large rural consistency as you do. That aside, I like much of what you've come up with. I prefer Southport going into West Lancs. it probably creates a better Southport seat, and avoids splitting Formby. |
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