Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2014 14:55:01 GMT
Supposing that deputy leadership election in 1981 had gone the other way, and Benn had beaten Healey.
I have heard all kinds of suggestions, all the way up to the Labour Party being decimated obliterated forever. I'm not sure it would have gone that far, does anyone else? I do think the Liberal-SDP Alliance would have been able to come second in the popular vote in 1983, although Labour would still have won far more seats than them - though fewer than 200. More Labour MPs would have been inclined to join the SDP, under renewed pressure to stand aside for left-wing candidates for the general election by local associations feeling vindicated by a Benn victory.
Had Labour's defeat been as severe as that of the Conservatives in 1997 in terms of seats - a plausible scenario - they'd have been left with 162 MPs - which would have required a further Lab to Con swing of 3.85% - enough to unseat Jim Callaghan, Jack Cunningham, Gwyneth Dunwoody and Alan Williams - and to prevent Bryan Gould and Margaret Beckett from getting back into the Commons. Simon Burns would have won Alyn and Deeside.
I doubt any of this would have been enough to see the L-SDP Alliance become the official opposition. It would have set Labour back even further than they were, but of course Benn would of course have still lost his seat in 1983, and thus not around to stand in the leadership election that October.
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Nov 1, 2014 15:02:42 GMT
For Labour to have been decimated would only have required one more of their MPs to defect to the SDP. I think they would have preferred to be decimated at the 1983 general election than what actually occurred
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Nov 1, 2014 15:08:13 GMT
If Labour had been beaten as badly as the OP suggests, then I suspect something would have happened afterwards (though I am not entirely sure what)
Not impossible that a Canadian-style (pre-2011, anyway) political setup could have ultimately resulted from a Benn victory.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2014 15:15:05 GMT
The meaning of the word "decimated" is open to debate. I suppose I could have said "annihilated", "wiped out" or "obliterated" or something similar instead.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2014 19:31:14 GMT
The meaning of the word "decimated" is open to debate. I suppose I could have said "annihilated", "wiped out" or "obliterated" or something similar instead. No, it means 'one in ten', no debate necessary. That people misunderstand is up to them.
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Post by mrhell on Nov 1, 2014 23:59:12 GMT
We don't still live in Roman times and language does evolve.
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Post by Zardoz on Nov 2, 2014 0:35:40 GMT
We don't still live in Roman times and language does evolve. Indeed. The word 'decimated' now has a much stronger meaning than the original 'one in ten'.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2014 0:49:56 GMT
The meaning of the word "decimated" is open to debate. I suppose I could have said "annihilated", "wiped out" or "obliterated" or something similar instead. No, it means 'one in ten', no debate necessary. That people misunderstand is up to them. Are you a small Old World thrush related to the chats, typically having a brown back with red on the breast or other colourful markings or are you in a gay relationship with Batman?
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Post by johnloony on Nov 2, 2014 12:12:18 GMT
It wouldn't have made the slightest bit of difference, because ordinary voters don't notice who the deputy leader of a party is, and the deputy leader of the Labour Party would not have determined party policy.
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john07
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Post by john07 on Nov 3, 2014 21:33:35 GMT
Deputy Leader of the Labour Party has always been a non-position, . It was only revived to give Herbert Morrison a seat on the National Executive Committee. He couldn't get the support to be elected any longer for the constituency section so a new ex-officio post was created.
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Post by timrollpickering on Apr 2, 2016 17:45:07 GMT
There has been a deputy leader as long as there's been a leader - the only time I can think of when the deputy was left vacant was for a couple of months in 1935 between Lansbury's resignation & Attlee's step up and the post election contest amongst a larger party.
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Post by Gladstone on Aug 28, 2016 17:02:15 GMT
A question here - does Deputy Leader of the Labour Party have to be an MP? Could Benn have continued after defeat in 1983?
Alternately - if Benn had been Deputy Leader it is more likely perhaps that he would have succeeded in the more winnable Bristol seat, held on in 1983 and had a shot as leader against Kinnock. Perhaps more likely is his remaining as deputy and slowing any moderate shift prior to 1987.
As for the 1983 result, a larger Tory majority would be the main difference but possibly a handful of additional SDP seats
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Aug 28, 2016 17:09:30 GMT
A question here - does Deputy Leader of the Labour Party have to be an MP? Could Benn have continued after defeat in 1983? Yes. The operative clause in the party constitution after the Wembley Special Conference read "The Leader and Deputy Leader of the Party shall be elected and/or re-elected from amongst the Commons members of the Parliamentary Labour Party ...". I doubt Tony Benn would have been selected for Bristol South even if he had been deputy leader.
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