Pimpernal
Forum Regular
A left-wing agenda within a right-wing framework...
Posts: 2,873 
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Post by Pimpernal on Jul 11, 2014 8:30:20 GMT
Now I'm all for voting reform, but when it comes to byelections how exactly do proponents of proportional representation, as opposed to preferential voting, believe you can get proportionality in single wards?
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Pimpernal
Forum Regular
A left-wing agenda within a right-wing framework...
Posts: 2,873
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Post by Pimpernal on Jul 11, 2014 8:32:33 GMT
And quite frankly, anyone who tries to fudge the issue of Union ballots and local government elections being somehow different is talking bollox. Because the same argument does indeed apply to both ballots.
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Post by AdminSTB on Jul 11, 2014 9:11:24 GMT
If you really must keep single wards, you could always bring in PR by introducing an Additional Member System to elect a number of additional councillors either covering groups of wards or just the council at large.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2014 9:15:01 GMT
This may need another thread (....of course it will) but I would begin with County Councils and Met wards, as the latter are already multi-member, and County Council divisions can be easily made such.
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Post by AdminSTB on Jul 11, 2014 9:40:32 GMT
I think I would make the mets and districts into all out elections with three-seat wards elected by STV, and I would give the counties AMS, with electoral "regions" for each district it contains.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2014 9:46:44 GMT
I think I would make the mets and districts into all out elections with three-seat wards elected by STV, and I would give the counties AMS, with electoral "regions" for each district it contains. We're going to have to meet in Preston to draw up draft legislation you know....  |
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Post by Ben Walker on Jul 11, 2014 10:28:26 GMT
Now I'm all for voting reform, but when it comes to byelections how exactly do proponents of proportional representation, as opposed to preferential voting, believe you can get proportionality in single wards? Our beautiful friend, AV? |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Jul 11, 2014 10:29:56 GMT
AV is not proportional representation. That's its main selling point.
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Post by marksenior on Jul 11, 2014 10:33:01 GMT
Northwich TC Bridge ward Labour hold
Lab 439 Con 242 Lib Dem 96
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Jul 11, 2014 10:33:27 GMT
BARNSLEY Penistone West
David Griffin (Labour) 772 (31.5%)
Andrew Millner (Conservative) 719 (29.3%)
David Wood (UKIP) 622 (25.4%)
Steve Webber (Independent) 338 (13.8%)
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Pimpernal
Forum Regular
A left-wing agenda within a right-wing framework...
Posts: 2,873
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Post by Pimpernal on Jul 11, 2014 11:07:34 GMT
If you really must keep single wards, you could always bring in PR by introducing an Additional Member System to elect a number of additional councillors either covering groups of wards or just the council at large. NOTE - I said how would it apply in byelections... |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Jul 11, 2014 11:24:42 GMT
NORTH HERTFORDSHIRE Hitchwood, Offa and Hoo
Faye BARNARD (Conservative Party) 734 (62.0%)
Colin John RAFFERTY (UK Independence Party) 203 (17.1%)
Simon WATSON (Labour Party) 116 (9.8%)
Orla NICHOLLS (Green Party) 74 (6.3%)
Peter Donald JOHNSON (Liberal Democrats) 57 (4.8%)
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Post by AdminSTB on Jul 11, 2014 12:24:52 GMT
I think I would make the mets and districts into all out elections with three-seat wards elected by STV, and I would give the counties AMS, with electoral "regions" for each district it contains. We're going to have to meet in Preston to draw up draft legislation you know.... Come down here. We have a brand new local pub with 15 handpulls.  |
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Post by Arthur Figgis on Jul 11, 2014 13:45:22 GMT
Where's that?
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Post by AdminSTB on Jul 11, 2014 14:03:10 GMT
It's The Midland on Bearwood Road just opposite the Co-Op, run by Black Country Ales. Been there three times so far, opening day, a weekend afternoon, and a midweek evening, and every time it's been packed. Usually they have 13 real ales and 2 real ciders on. They have the three standard Black Country Ales plus a seasonal one, and nine guest ales which have been coming from all over the country. Got a pint from Orkney last time I was in.  |
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Post by Arthur Figgis on Jul 11, 2014 14:18:56 GMT
Ah, have to try that.
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Post by middleenglander on Jul 11, 2014 14:43:56 GMT
Barnsley, Penistone West - Labour hold | Party | 2014 B votes | 2014 B share | since 2014 | since 2012 | since 2011 | since 2010 | | Labour | 772 | 31.5% | +2.6% | -16.1% | -1.9% | -3.3% | | Conservative | 719 | 29.3% | +1.6% | -16.5% | -17.9% | -19.4% | | UKIP | 622 | 25.4% | +0.0% | from nowhere | from nowhere | from nowhere | | Independent | 338 | 13.8% | -4.3% | from nowhere | -0.6% | from nowhere | | Liberal Democrats |
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| -6.5% |
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| | BNP |
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| -5.0% | -8.7% | | Barnsley Independents |
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| -7.8% | | Total votes | 2,451 |
| 70% | 84% | 63% | 42% |
Swing Conservative to Labour 0.5% since May 2014, 0.2% since 2012 and 8% since both 2011 and 2010 Cheshire West & Cheshire, Boughton - Labour hold | Party | 2014 votes | 2014 share | since 2011 | | Labour | 614 | 44.8% | -7.3% | | Conservative | 469 | 34.2% | -6.1% | | UKIP | 131 | 9.6% | from nowhere | | Green | 86 | 6.3% | from nowhere | | Liberal Democrat | 70 | 5.1% | -2.4% | | Total votes | 1,370 |
| 74% |
Swing Labour to Conservative 0.6% since 2011 Cheshire West & Chester, Winnington & Castle - Labour hold | Party | 2014 votes | 2014 share | since 2011 "top" | since 2011 "average" | | Labour | 525 | 39.5% | -9.1% | -9.0% | | Conservative | 418 | 31.4% | -3.3% | -3.1% | | UKIP | 307 | 23.1% | from nowhere | from nowhere | | Liberal Democrat | 80 | 6.0% | -3.6% | -3.8% | | BNP |
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| -7.1% | -7.2% | | Total votes | 1,330 |
| 62% | 63% |
Swing Labour to Conservative ~2.9% since 2011 Cornwall, Illogan - Liberal Democrat gain from Conservative| Party | 2014 votes | 2014 share | since 2013 | since 2009 | | Liberal Democrat | 277 | 23.8% | +10.1% | +13.9% | | Mebyon Kernow | 217 | 18.6% | -6.6% | from nowhere | | Conservative | 215 | 18.5% | -10.3% | -14.3% | | UKIP | 156 | 13.4% | -9.1% | from nowhere | | Labour | 129 | 11.1% | +1.2% | +4.5% | | Liberal | 121 | 10.4% | from nowhere | -15.2% | | Green | 50 | 4.3% | from nowhere | from nowhere | | Independent |
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| -25.1% | | Total votes | 1,165 |
| 101% | 94% |
Swing Conservative to Liberal Democrat 10.2% since 2013 and 14.1% since 2009 Torridge, Kenwith - Conservative hold although previous councillor was sitting as an Independent | Party | 2014 votes | 2014 share | since 2011 | since 2007 | since 2003 | | Conservative | 136 | 29.8% | -26.5% | -24.7% | from nowhere | | UKIP | 99 | 21.7% | from nowhere | from nowhere | from nowhere | | Independent Gale | 98 | 21.5% | from nowhere | from nowhere | from nowhere | | Independent Bone * | 69 | 15.1% | from nowhere | -30.4% | -37.5% | | Green | 28 | 6.1% | from nowhere | from nowhere | from nowhere | | Labour | 26 | 5.7% | -15.5% | from nowhere | from nowhere | | Liberal Democrat |
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| -22.5% |
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| | Independent |
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| -47.4% | | Total votes | 456 |
| 63% | 75% | 91% |
* Hugh Bone stood as Community Alliance in 2003 and as Independent in 2007 & 2014 Swing not meaningful Deferred ElectionNorth Hertfordshire, Hitchwood, Offa & Hoo - Conservative hold | Party | 2014 votes | 2014 share | since 2012 B | since 2012 | since 2011 | since 2010 | since 2008 | | Conservative | 734 | 62.0% | +5.2% | -2.2% | -4.6% | +0.1% | -11.1% | | UKIP | 203 | 17.1% | +1.2% | from nowhere | from nowhere | from nowhere | from nowhere | | Labour | 116 | 9.8% | -4.1% | -7.2% | -5.7% | -2.7% | +0.1% | | Green | 74 | 6.2% | +1.0% | -4.9% | -1.4% | +0.3% | -0.6% | | Liberal Democrat | 57 | 4.8% | -3.3% | -2.9% | -5.4% | -14.8% | -5.6% | | Total votes | 1,184 |
| 87% | 62% | 42% | 28% | 51% |
Swing UKIP to Conservative 2% since November 2012 by-election - and Labour to Conservative ~4½% since Nov 2012 by-election, 2½% since 2012, ~½% since 2011, ~1½% since 2010 but Conservative to Labour ~5½% since 2008
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cibwr
Plaid Cymru
Posts: 3,589
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Post by cibwr on Jul 12, 2014 7:28:46 GMT
It's the second week on the run that we have seen a by-election where the winner polled less than 25% of the vote. Last week Labour gained Skipton West on 24% of the poll. I hope/trust/pray that these results are being fed into the Labour Party manifesto machine for next year. Reform of local government elections would benefit all parties, and I know beyond all knowledge that political parties tend to look at the partisan in all this, but all it takes is for someone who doesn't understand local government to try and fudge a comparison between Union strike votes and Labour winning seats with 24% of the vote, and you've got a panicked response with psephologists stuck in the background weeping and wailing at the misunderstandings. We are expecting a major reorganisation of Local Government in Wales (any day soon.....) and one thing that Labour are resisting is reform of the electoral system. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2014 8:01:17 GMT
I hope/trust/pray that these results are being fed into the Labour Party manifesto machine for next year. Reform of local government elections would benefit all parties, and I know beyond all knowledge that political parties tend to look at the partisan in all this, but all it takes is for someone who doesn't understand local government to try and fudge a comparison between Union strike votes and Labour winning seats with 24% of the vote, and you've got a panicked response with psephologists stuck in the background weeping and wailing at the misunderstandings. We are expecting a major reorganisation of Local Government in Wales (any day soon.....) and one thing that Labour are resisting is reform of the electoral system. Colour me surprised. |
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Jul 12, 2014 10:27:32 GMT
There's a very good case for it in South Wales, but wouldn't you have problems in North Wales due to how thinly populated some of the rural areas are? You'd need extremely sprawling wards for STV to work, especially since most of the councils concerned arguably have too many councillors for their electorates anyway.
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