Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2014 13:29:11 GMT
As unhappy as I am with David Owen, he retains the same social democratic views, admittedly of the right of the old Labour camp, that he always has. I would be tempted to argue that some of his views were not particularly classically social democratic, but he didn't change.
Mosley was a completely different kettle of fish, a fascist who started by being a figure on the left of politics who then embraced populist nationalism and xenophobia. A similar journey to his hero, Mussolini.
He never moved from that position.
|
|
Merseymike
Independent
Posts: 40,429
Member is Online
|
Post by Merseymike on Mar 5, 2014 14:27:29 GMT
I think its fair to say that David Owen isn't someone who easily fits into a political party. However, I think that there are plenty worse than him and if he wants to support the Labour party, he is entitled to do so like anyone else
I'm also pleased that the subject is the NHS which he has always supported strongly, unlike his former colleague who was conned by the Tory assurance that there wouldn't be mass shift of provision to the private sector
|
|
|
|
Post by Richard Cromwell on Mar 5, 2014 16:37:18 GMT
Moseley had not always been a fascist! Would he not be entitled to change his mind again? The difference is that Mosley left Labour because they were too far to the right and Owen left because they were to far to the left... "Having been denounced as the wild man of the Left by Snowden and others, I was then supposed to become a right-wing reactionary. But my policy was precisely the same." - Oswald Mosley, 1968 The Labour Party will take any chance it can to appeal to 'the centre ground' and to stamp on the working class as if the word 'Labour' means absolutely nothing. As far as David Owen is concerned, based on his actions, the atrocious anti-socialism of the Thatcher government was better than the the prospect of a left-wing Foot government. |
|
|
|
Post by johnloony on Mar 6, 2014 4:17:30 GMT
When I am being facetious I sometimes think of David Owen as being an "extreme moderate", or a "fascist of the centre" - but that's based on his personality/image rather than anything to do with policies.
|
|
|
|
Post by La Fontaine on Mar 6, 2014 23:11:50 GMT
I welcome him back on the same grounds. Big tents win elections and welcoming centre-ground, consensus-seeking, proven democratic types into the party is good for our image. £7,500 isn't to be sniffed at either.  I don't think £7,500 is very impressive. I was considering just such a donation a while ago, and I would guess David Owen is very much better off than I am! |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2014 3:50:58 GMT
NO WAY! A pity the Poll is now closed as I'd certainly have voted NO! Labour has far too many Liberals and Centrists as it is and does not need a traitor like him. They should send him back his money!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2014 9:24:57 GMT
I now live in France and am a member of the Partie Socialiste here, so Oui, je suis au gauche!
I am a suporter of the Clem Attlee/Harold Wilson type of Labour Party, not Blairite Social Democrat Centrist revisionism and feel that Labour would have won with a good working majority but not a landslide in 1997 had Blair NOT been Leader and his changes had never occurred. It was a tragedy that John Smith died when he did.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2014 14:31:52 GMT
You would have made a working majority with just about anyone. Without Blair it might have been close in 2001 and you would have lost in 2005.
|
|
The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,909
Member is Online
|
Post by The Bishop on Mar 10, 2014 15:30:17 GMT
If you look at back issues of (say) Tribune and the New Statesman, the invective that far leftists showered on the Attlee government both during and after its tenure is remarkably similar to what we see on the likes of CiF now. There are even demands to abandon Labour and set up a "new socialist party" - sound familiar?  |
|
|
|
Post by justin124 on Mar 10, 2014 19:12:19 GMT
'. And I can never understand why some people who consider themselves 'Labour' resent the Blair landslides. It is as if they hate him for being a winner and they would prefer heroic failure in the style of Michael Foot.'
Many of us despise Blair for two things. Firstly, his governments were well to the right of pre- Thatcher Tory Governments going back as far as Baldwin and Chamberlain. Secondly, he was a war criminal.
|
|
|
|
Post by No Offence Alan on Mar 10, 2014 19:24:07 GMT
You would have made a working majority with just about anyone. Without Blair it might have been close in 2001 and you would have lost in 2005. Except anyone other than Blair would not have taken part in the war in Iraq. |
|
|
|
Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Mar 10, 2014 20:52:35 GMT
You would have made a working majority with just about anyone. Without Blair it might have been close in 2001 and you would have lost in 2005. Except anyone other than Blair would not have taken part in the war in Iraq. I wouldn't be so sure about that. It's a mistaken assumption that everyone was against British participation in the liberation of Iraq except for Tony Blair and his supporters. Gordon Brown said explicitly at a news conference during the 2005 election that he would have taken the same decision, and shortly before the 2010 election he said that going to war was the right decision. And remember also, that the majority of the public supported the Government's policy at the time. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2014 21:13:57 GMT
"As for the Parti Socialiste - whatever floats your boat, but they always appear to be stuck 40 years in the past to me".
And THAT is why I am delighted to be living and working in France and why I support and have joined the PS. I have lost faith in what now calls itself Labour in the UK and if I still voted in the UK, which I will NOT be doing again, I would only vote for them to get Cameron and Co out but not for any great liking for Balls, Ed Miliband etc, what they are saying and what they are likely to do and more over NOT do! If I wanted a Social Democrat Centre Party I'd be SDP.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2014 21:24:31 GMT
"As for the Parti Socialiste - whatever floats your boat, but they always appear to be stuck 40 years in the past to me".And THAT is why I am delighted to be living and working in France and why I support and have joined the PS. I have lost faith in what now calls itself Labour in the UK and if I still voted in the UK, which I will NOT be doing again, I would only vote for them to get Cameron and Co out but not for any great liking for Balls, Ed Miliband etc, what they are saying and what they are likely to do and more over NOT do! If I wanted a Social Democrat Centre Party I'd be SDP. Glad to see the economy under your lefty government is doing so well. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2014 10:21:11 GMT
For a few years yes 1995-2001 then I got sick of Blair's revisionism and let my membership lapse.
|
|
|
|
Post by thirdchill on Mar 11, 2014 11:58:03 GMT
"As for the Parti Socialiste - whatever floats your boat, but they always appear to be stuck 40 years in the past to me".And THAT is why I am delighted to be living and working in France and why I support and have joined the PS. I have lost faith in what now calls itself Labour in the UK and if I still voted in the UK, which I will NOT be doing again, I would only vote for them to get Cameron and Co out but not for any great liking for Balls, Ed Miliband etc, what they are saying and what they are likely to do and more over NOT do! If I wanted a Social Democrat Centre Party I'd be SDP. The PS in france also get moaned at from the left as well, and there are a few cries of 'betrayal' there as well. I agree that they are to the left of the labour party as it stands though...... |
|
|
|
Post by East Anglian Lefty on Mar 11, 2014 12:04:22 GMT
I'm not sure I'd agree with that. Aside from the headline policies, which have a very limited real-world impact, they strike me as the epitome of a small-c conservative party. They don't really want to change the course of the ship of state, they just want to be in command of the hulk as it slowly rots.
After all, the problem with Hollande is that nobody really seems to be clear why exactly he wants to be President.
|
|
The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,909
Member is Online
|
Post by The Bishop on Mar 11, 2014 12:17:20 GMT
So he has more in common with Cameron than many Tories here would like to admit |
|
|
|
Post by Pete Whitehead on Mar 11, 2014 12:19:16 GMT
Probably because its the only way that someone who looks like this  gets to shag someone who looks like this  |
|
|
|
Post by East Anglian Lefty on Mar 11, 2014 12:27:29 GMT
By wearing this?  Well, now I feel ill. |
|
