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Post by Andrew_S on Dec 29, 2020 11:19:20 GMT
The Ravensbourne constituency was named after a river rather than a place. If it had been named after a place what would have been the best name for it? Bromley. Thanks, I didn't know the whole of Bromley (town) was in Ravensbourne. I wonder why they opted not to call it Bromley in the first place. Perhaps to avoid confusion with the London Borough of Bromley, and they didn't want to call it "Old Bromley" like they did with Bexley and Old Bexley.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2020 11:23:23 GMT
In the 1920 and 1936 US elections, when one candidate won every county in California, FDR was on the ballot
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Post by where2travel on Dec 29, 2020 12:43:10 GMT
Thanks, I didn't know the whole of Bromley (town) was in Ravensbourne. I wonder why they opted not to call it Bromley in the first place. Perhaps to avoid confusion with the London Borough of Bromley, and they didn't want to call it "Old Bromley" like they did with Bexley and Old Bexley. I think that was the problem. It didn't include areas where people live where they would say they lived "in Bromley", yet it stretched all the way to Downe and Biggin Hill, where residents wouldn't associate living in Bromley (the town). Even West Wickham looks more towards Beckenham than Bromley. Mind you, it would be no worse than Beckenham for the name of that constituency on its existing boundaries. I have a certain fondness for the old Ravensbourne name. Most locals don't even know that's the name of the river which passes through the area, and the first thought for many would be of the railway station (which is one of the least used in Beckenham), but is the place at which four constituencies meet at a point.
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Post by islington on Dec 29, 2020 13:05:47 GMT
I agree the Ravensbourne isn't a well-known feature, even locally, but it has to be said that it's charmingly named - although in its lower reaches it takes a sharp turn downmarket and becomes Deptford Creek.
I think the seat was called Ravensbourne in deference to an illogical (to my mind) prejudice against using the name of a London borough for a constituency that comprises only part of it.
Elsewhere in the country, this doesn't seem to be an issue: we have constituencies like Rotherham, Solihull, Wakefield and Wigan (there are probably others) that comprise only part of the eponymous boroughs.
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Post by jacoblamsden on Dec 29, 2020 23:31:26 GMT
I was living in Beckenham in 1974 when the Ravensbourne seat was created and AJS, islington & where2travel are totally right about the reasons for the name. Bickley, Sundridge, Plaistow and Elmstead - four main residential areas of Bromley were actually in the Chislehurst seat, and apart from the town centre ward and Bromley Common, there weren't any other areas obviously part of Bromley in that Ravensbourne seat. Keston, Hayes and West Wickham if anything looked to Beckenham more than Bromley itself. They then changed the Ravensbourne boundaries again in 1983, making it even more of a messy bits left over constituency with the addition of Biggin Hill and the rural Kentish villages and hamlets such as Downe, Cudham and Leaves Green. Chislehurst was a mess of a seat as well consisting of Chislehurst, half of Mottingham, the northern and eastern suburbs of Bromley and half of the Cray Valley. On the subject of Ravensbourne, the station of the same name (never actually located in Ravensbourne constituency but always in Copers Cope ward, Beckenham!) was my local for years. It was unusual for a Greater London station in being on an unmade road, giving it the feel of a station located in some rural backwater (see www.geograph.org.uk/photo/43851) but I think the road has since been modernised.
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Post by Andrew_S on Jan 2, 2021 1:36:01 GMT
I was living in Beckenham in 1974 when the Ravensbourne seat was created and AJS, islington & where2travel are totally right about the reasons for the name. Bickley, Sundridge, Plaistow and Elmstead - four main residential areas of Bromley were actually in the Chislehurst seat, and apart from the town centre ward and Bromley Common, there weren't any other areas obviously part of Bromley in that Ravensbourne seat. Keston, Hayes and West Wickham if anything looked to Beckenham more than Bromley itself. They then changed the Ravensbourne boundaries again in 1983, making it even more of a messy bits left over constituency with the addition of Biggin Hill and the rural Kentish villages and hamlets such as Downe, Cudham and Leaves Green. Chislehurst was a mess of a seat as well consisting of Chislehurst, half of Mottingham, the northern and eastern suburbs of Bromley and half of the Cray Valley. On the subject of Ravensbourne, the station of the same name (never actually located in Ravensbourne constituency but always in Copers Cope ward, Beckenham!) was my local for years. It was unusual for a Greater London station in being on an unmade road, giving it the feel of a station located in some rural backwater (see www.geograph.org.uk/photo/43851) but I think the road has since been modernised. Interesting information, thanks. Incidentally the reason why I suddenly started thinking about Ravensbourne is because I'd just watched Geoff Marshall's video on YouTube about how close Catford and Catford Bridge stations are to each other and how you can't buy a ticket to travel between them, and he mentioned that the Ravensbourne river is located between them.
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Post by Andrew_S on Jan 2, 2021 1:36:37 GMT
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johnloony
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Post by johnloony on Jan 2, 2021 11:43:03 GMT
Brilliant work! I notice that North Hertfordshire is the wrong colour. I was interested to see (i.e. to be reminded) how often the lead switched between Remain and Leave several times. Is it possible to turn it into a graph to show the cumulative percentages as they approached the final 52/48? Also, is it possible to do a fun version of what the cumulative total would look like if the results had been declared in reverse order?
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Post by where2travel on Jan 2, 2021 11:59:56 GMT
On the subject of Ravensbourne, the station of the same name (never actually located in Ravensbourne constituency but always in Copers Cope ward, Beckenham!) was my local for years. It was unusual for a Greater London station in being on an unmade road, giving it the feel of a station located in some rural backwater (see www.geograph.org.uk/photo/43851) but I think the road has since been modernised. The road doesn't really look much different, but is has been properly modernised (although there are a number of other remaining roads in the nearly area that are still unmade). One of the entrances to Beckenham Place Park is immediately opposite. I never know if the station is in Copers Cope or Bromley Town, given the railway line splits the two wards. Presumably the ticket office being situated on the Copers Cope side of the line is the key factor? That said, it's considered a station in Beckenham, rather than in Bromley. As mentioned above it's one of the least used in Beckenham (which I think has 8 railway stations in total, excluding Beckenham Hill), and it does feel far more "out of the way" than the others. If it wasn't for Birkbeck (which always features as one of the least used railway stations in London, Ravensbourne would be the least used local station).
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Post by where2travel on Jan 2, 2021 12:10:30 GMT
Incidentally the reason why I suddenly started thinking about Ravensbourne is because I'd just watched Geoff Marshall's video on YouTube about how close Catford and Catford Bridge stations are to each other and how you can't buy a ticket to travel between them, and he mentioned that the Ravensbourne river is located between them. I note he also mentions the same applies to Clock House (just down the same line from Catford Bridge) and Kent House stations. They are close together but don't feel like they are almost the same station in the way to that Catford and Catford Bridge do. Kent House and Clock House are both in Beckenham (the town). They are a fairly short walking distance to the town centre, neither station is in the Beckenham constituency though (which helps demonstrate the Beckenham name isn't very representative of the constituency). They are actually in separate wards too.
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Post by owainsutton on Jan 2, 2021 12:55:04 GMT
Incidentally the reason why I suddenly started thinking about Ravensbourne is because I'd just watched Geoff Marshall's video on YouTube about how close Catford and Catford Bridge stations are to each other and how you can't buy a ticket to travel between them, and he mentioned that the Ravensbourne river is located between them. I note he also mentions the same applies to Clock House (just down the same line from Catford Bridge) and Kent House stations. They are close together but don't feel like they are almost the same station in the way to that Catford and Catford Bridge do. Kent House and Clock House are both in Beckenham (the town). They are a fairly short walking distance to the town centre, neither station is in the Beckenham constituency though (which helps demonstrate the Beckenham name isn't very representative of the constituency). They are actually in separate wards too. Weirdly, you *can* buy a ticket between Wigan Wallgate and Wigan North Western, despite being about as close to each other as the Catford stations and having no direct service.
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Post by 🏴☠️ Neath West 🏴☠️ on Jan 2, 2021 12:59:11 GMT
I note he also mentions the same applies to Clock House (just down the same line from Catford Bridge) and Kent House stations. They are close together but don't feel like they are almost the same station in the way to that Catford and Catford Bridge do. Kent House and Clock House are both in Beckenham (the town). They are a fairly short walking distance to the town centre, neither station is in the Beckenham constituency though (which helps demonstrate the Beckenham name isn't very representative of the constituency). They are actually in separate wards too. Weirdly, you *can* buy a ticket between Wigan Wallgate and Wigan North Western, despite being about as close to each other as the Catford stations and having no direct service. I think that's just journey planners trying to sell you multiple tickets. There are no fares set for that route: www.brfares.com/#expert?orig=WGN&dest=WGW
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Post by IceAgeComing on Jan 2, 2021 14:04:21 GMT
Same goes for Catford/Catford Bridge: some journey planners will sell you a Travel Card of some description that covers Zone 3; the one I use to check possible splits will sell you tickets but its actually a pair of Catford/Catford Bridge to Ladywell returns so in reality you are not buying a ticket between the two stations.
It doesn't really matter in London: outside of very limited circumstances those travelling entirely within the Oyster area will be using Oyster cards or contactless bank cards so things like that don't really matter since the system will work out some sort of fare for you anyway. And those limited circumstances are very niche: the only time I found myself buying a paper ticket for travel wholly inside London was times when my travel card had expired like two days before I was going on holiday so I didn't want to buy a new one: in the evening peak some railcards are valid on National Rail but not on TfL and so its cheaper to get 1/3 off the more expensive price with a paper ticket than to pay the full price Oyster fare which is normally cheaper. Only applies with some railcards (16-25 and 26-30 I know because the minimum price only applies before 9:30am; probably some others) and only in the evening peak because of that minimum price but its a good trick to know for those niche situations.
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Post by timrollpickering on Jan 2, 2021 15:01:39 GMT
I note he also mentions the same applies to Clock House (just down the same line from Catford Bridge) and Kent House stations. They are close together but don't feel like they are almost the same station in the way to that Catford and Catford Bridge do. They're not so close and there's a tram stop on the route between them at Beckenham Road. (London Reconnections states there had briefly been a Penge station on this site but for only two years 1858-1860 which is probably why there seems to be so little about it online.) There are closer stations such as Forest Gate and Wanstead Park or Manor Park and Woodgrange Park. Whereas the Catfords feel so close as to be almost another Hither Green.
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Post by 🏴☠️ Neath West 🏴☠️ on Jan 2, 2021 16:46:26 GMT
Weirdly, you *can* buy a ticket between Wigan Wallgate and Wigan North Western, despite being about as close to each other as the Catford stations and having no direct service. I think that's just journey planners trying to sell you multiple tickets. There are no fares set for that route: www.brfares.com/#expert?orig=WGN&dest=WGWI have found an oddity in that part of the world: it does seem to be possible to buy a ticket from Burscough Junction to Burscough Bridge. There's even an option of buying a First Class ticket – I'd be amazed if the trains on those branches had First Class, but the fare exists.
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john07
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Post by john07 on Jan 2, 2021 18:58:31 GMT
I wonder if it was possible to buy a ticket from Manchester Victoria to Manchester Exchange given the through platforms?
I suppose the nearest equivalent now would be Victoria to Salford Central or Piccadilly to Oxford Road?
All tickets now seem to give a generic Manchester City Centre name rather than specifying individual stations.
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Post by greenhert on Jan 2, 2021 19:17:31 GMT
Constituencies in 2019 where the Liberal Democrat vote share decreased and also where it decreased by an amount equal to or greater than the Labour vote share did (also counting constituencies where the Labour vote share increased but where the Liberal Democrat vote share decreased that same year):
Bermondsey & Old Southwark Berwick-upon-Tweed (equal at -2.9%) Birmingham Yardley Ceredigion Colchester Eastbourne Leeds North West Manchester Gorton Montgomeryshire North Cornwall North Devon North Norfolk Portsmouth South St Austell & Newquay South East Cornwall Southport Truro & Falmouth
Special case: In Bradford West and Chingford & Woodford Green, both the Labour and Liberal Democrat vote shares increased but the Labour vote share increase was greater than the Liberal Democrat vote share increase in both cases. Seats where the Liberal Democrats stood down as part of the Unite to Remain alliance are excluded.
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Post by owainsutton on Jan 2, 2021 20:44:53 GMT
I wonder if it was possible to buy a ticket from Manchester Victoria to Manchester Exchange given the through platforms? I suppose the nearest equivalent now would be Victoria to Salford Central or Piccadilly to Oxford Road? All tickets now seem to give a generic Manchester City Centre name rather than specifying individual stations. Piccadilly to Oxford Road is definitely available. £2.40. Bargain!!! Per-yard, probably cheaper than Oxford Road to Deansgate, £2.30.
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Post by gwynthegriff on Jan 2, 2021 20:55:28 GMT
I wonder if it was possible to buy a ticket from Manchester Victoria to Manchester Exchange given the through platforms? I suppose the nearest equivalent now would be Victoria to Salford Central or Piccadilly to Oxford Road? All tickets now seem to give a generic Manchester City Centre name rather than specifying individual stations. I have certainly bought a Salford Central to Manchester Victoria ticket, on more than one occasion. The Manchester Stations entity is a little complex depending on where you're coming from. Crewe to M/cr Stations appears to cover Picc, Oxfd Rd and Deansgate but not Victoria. A Bolton to M/cr Stations presumably covers all of them. Rochdale to M/cr Stations? God knows!
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Post by gwynthegriff on Jan 2, 2021 20:58:42 GMT
I have found an oddity in that part of the world: it does seem to be possible to buy a ticket from Burscough Junction to Burscough Bridge. There's even an option of buying a First Class ticket – I'd be amazed if the trains on those branches had First Class, but the fare exists. If you travelled via Preston and Wigan you would be able to travel First Class between those two points.
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