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Post by AdminSTB on Nov 8, 2024 12:15:18 GMT
City of London
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Post by sanders on Nov 8, 2024 13:43:04 GMT
Labour only won seats in Aldersgate in Cripplegate last time (the wards covering the Barbican estate). In 2017, they took seats in Portsoken. I've often thought Labour over nominated in Farringdon Within ward in 2022 - it covers a mix of residential and commercial areas around St Paul's (including Amen Corner where the St Pail's canons live). Labour got fairly close to a seat there. Other than that, the usual smorgasbord of independents should end up running the City as usual. I'm interesting to hear from Davıd Boothroyd about how many Labour candidates will stand. I actually interviewed Lana Joyce and Gordon Nardell during my journalism course and they were fascinating in terms of their motivations for standing. It's an interesting prospect being a resident in a Central Business District. |
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Post by cityslickr on Nov 10, 2024 22:52:19 GMT
This Local Authority is fundamentally different from all others in the UK.
Most of the voters are appointed by companies located in the financial City (the ‘square mile’)
The City of London Corporation (the ‘Corporation’) is bicameral, and the elections next March are for the Common Councilmen in the lower house, the ‘Court of Common Council’. The upper house is the ‘Court of Aldermen’. There are 25 Aldermen, one for each Ward. There are 100 Common Councilmen (not ‘councillors’!) who, together with the Aldermen, form the Court of Common Council.
Much UK electoral law doesn’t apply in the City of London, just as many laws, or parts of laws, don’t apply there generally. That’s because a Corporation functionary, the ‘City Remembrancer’, ‘sits behind the Speaker’s Chair’ in the House of Commons to examine all proposed legislation and to advise which bills or parts of bills the City Corporation wants to be exempted from.
In elections, for example, it means that the Court of Common council deals with its own periodic boundary reviews - there’s no place for the LGBCE! Ballot secrecy is assured by using the Ballot Act 1872 - more recent legislative provisions in this area don’t apply to the Corporation.
Just to provoke David, I have to mention that Election Day has been set (by the Corporation) for Wednesday 19th March, but polling (if required) will take place on Thursday 20th March.
Traditionally, many wards have been uncontested in these Common Council elections. Next year, it will be surprising if a single ward is uncontested, as significant efforts have been made by the Corporation to promote the idea that duly qualified people may want to put themselves up for election.
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Post by sanders on Nov 11, 2024 11:34:53 GMT
Labour don't seriously contest Aldermanic elections. They gave Portsoken a go once. I told Labour "run fewer candidates". With just one, they could've won a seat in Farringdon Within. It was very close last time. Conversely, given the wards' residential nature, they could nominate more candidate in Aldersgate and Cripplegate.
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Nov 11, 2024 11:40:25 GMT
Just to provoke David, I have to mention that Election Day has been set (by the Corporation) for Wednesday 19th March, but polling (if required) will take place on Thursday 20th March. It's a matter of de jure and de facto, dear friend. |
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Post by sanders on Nov 11, 2024 11:44:27 GMT
Just to provoke David, I have to mention that Election Day has been set (by the Corporation) for Wednesday 19th March, but polling (if required) will take place on Thursday 20th March. It's a matter of de jure and de facto, dear friend. How many are your lot standing? |
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Chris from Brum
Lib Dem
What I need is a strong drink and a peer group.
Posts: 9,731
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Post by Chris from Brum on Nov 13, 2024 15:35:57 GMT
This Local Authority is fundamentally different from all others in the UK. Most of the voters are appointed by companies located in the financial City (the ‘square mile’) The City of London Corporation (the ‘Corporation’) is bicameral, and the elections next March are for the Common Councilmen in the lower house, the ‘Court of Common Council’. The upper house is the ‘Court of Aldermen’. There are 25 Aldermen, one for each Ward. There are 100 Common Councilmen (not ‘councillors’!) who, together with the Aldermen, form the Court of Common Council. Much UK electoral law doesn’t apply in the City of London, just as many laws, or parts of laws, don’t apply there generally. That’s because a Corporation functionary, the ‘City Remembrancer’, ‘sits behind the Speaker’s Chair’ in the House of Commons to examine all proposed legislation and to advise which bills or parts of bills the City Corporation wants to be exempted from. In elections, for example, it means that the Court of Common council deals with its own periodic boundary reviews - there’s no place for the LGBCE! Ballot secrecy is assured by using the Ballot Act 1872 - more recent legislative provisions in this area don’t apply to the Corporation. Just to provoke David, I have to mention that Election Day has been set (by the Corporation) for Wednesday 19th March, but polling (if required) will take place on Thursday 20th March. Traditionally, many wards have been uncontested in these Common Council elections. Next year, it will be surprising if a single ward is uncontested, as significant efforts have been made by the Corporation to promote the idea that duly qualified people may want to put themselves up for election. The phrase "sui generis" could have been coined specifically with the City of London in mind. |
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Post by timrollpickering on Nov 15, 2024 21:29:59 GMT
Much UK electoral law doesn’t apply in the City of London, If we're being pedantic (on THIS forum?!) it doesn't apply for the Corporation. However it does apply for other elections covering the City such as parliamentary and London Mayoral & Assembly elections. |
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Post by cityslickr on Nov 19, 2024 0:05:37 GMT
Much UK electoral law doesn’t apply in the City of London, If we're being pedantic (on THIS forum?!) it doesn't apply for the Corporation. However it does apply for other elections covering the City such as parliamentary and London Mayoral & Assembly elections. That’s entirely true. The City Corporation fulfils all of the usual requirements of a local authority responsible for elections - maintaining a rolling electoral register (for just four polling districts) and administering (in their small minority of a seat) GLA and parliamentary elections, together with any referendums. Counts for any such elections always take place outside the City, in the Authority which is the lead authority for that particular seat. In its role as a local authority, however, it maintains a second, parallel, voter listing - a Ward List - for each of its 25 Wards (26 polling districts). This is not a rolling register. Most of its electors (and most of its elected Councilmen and Aldermen) don’t live in the local authority area. And some without allegiance to the Crown may only vote in elections for Common Councilmen, not for Aldermen. By Law, all ward counts must take place within the boundary of each ward, so we have up to 25 count centres simultaneously at every Common Council election. Elections staff have to be drafted in from a good number of London Boroughs to help out on polling day (the day after the date set for the election). |
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Post by timrollpickering on Nov 19, 2024 15:35:52 GMT
If we're being pedantic (on THIS forum?!) it doesn't apply for the Corporation. However it does apply for other elections covering the City such as parliamentary and London Mayoral & Assembly elections. That’s entirely true. The City Corporation fulfils all of the usual requirements of a local authority responsible for elections - maintaining a rolling electoral register (for just four polling districts) and administering (in their small minority of a seat) GLA and parliamentary elections, together with any referendums. Counts for any such elections always take place outside the City, in the Authority which is the lead authority for that particular seat. Further pedantry but the Greater London Authority elections don't even necessarily take place in the lead authority. Although the City & East count for at least the last four has, this is more because Newham is both the lead authority and contains the ExCel. However in previous elections there were three super counting centres across London, not even necessarily in the lead borough for the local seat (we checked for reasons) and although some are now going local others are still done at super centres. Is this a clear category of voter or does one have to take an oath to the Crown before voting for Aldermen/Alderwomen? (Women holding the post are divided, at least on the website, between those using "Alderman" and "Alderwoman".) Blimey. I know elections are not the biggest budget item for an authority but it is really a good idea to legislate inefficiency and waste into the system? Especially at the entry point for members of the council/court? |
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Post by timrollpickering on Nov 19, 2024 16:11:05 GMT
There are 100 Common Councilmen (not ‘councillors’!) Sorry on another point but the Corporation website disagrees with you: Your Councillors - Modern CouncilIt uses the term "Common Councillor" a lot. Is this a recent battle lost? |
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J.G.Harston
Lib Dem
Leave-voting Brexit-supporting Liberal Democrat
Posts: 14,769 
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Post by J.G.Harston on Nov 19, 2024 20:11:06 GMT
Is this a clear category of voter or does one have to take an oath to the Crown before voting for Aldermen/Alderwomen? (Women holding the post are divided, at least on the website, between those using "Alderman" and "Alderwoman".) Hey! According to my online dictionary, it's Aldermaness.  |
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john07
Labour & Co-operative
Posts: 15,785
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Post by john07 on Nov 20, 2024 1:37:59 GMT
Is this a clear category of voter or does one have to take an oath to the Crown before voting for Aldermen/Alderwomen? (Women holding the post are divided, at least on the website, between those using "Alderman" and "Alderwoman".) Hey! According to my online dictionary, it's Aldermaness. That sounds like Aldermadness? |
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Post by yellowperil on Nov 20, 2024 8:57:48 GMT
Hey! According to my online dictionary, it's Aldermaness. That sounds like Aldermadness? They ought to get to Alderperson some time soon. |
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Post by cityslickr on Nov 22, 2024 0:33:47 GMT
It uses the term "Common Councillor" a lot. Is this a recent battle lost? Perhaps the battle is going against the ‘councilmen’, but it’s still the wording of the Corporation Acts of Common Council governing elections, and it’s still what appears on the electoral nomination forms. www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/assets/about-us/voting-elections/common-council-elections-nomination-paper.pdfThere’s a cultural war of ‘modernisation’ going on in the Corporation. It started with the abolition of the passing around of the port during the non-public business of meetings of Common Council, and in some people’s eyes it’s been all downhill since then ( although at least there’s now no need for copious pot pourri to mask the smell of the alcohol!!). Some newly elected councilmen and their ward deputies are now wearing plain business suits rather than morning dress when the newbie, at their first Common Council meeting, is formally presented to the Lord Mayor, and some of the Committee dinners have even foregone black tie! State banquets’ dress standards haven’t yet slipped, however. Part of the ‘modernisation’ is the language battle. ‘Councillor’ for ‘councilman’, ‘Alder’ or ‘Alderperson’ or ‘Alderwoman’ for ‘Alderman’, and ‘Council’ for ‘Honorable Court’. To promote inclusion, the Corporation appears to permit anyone to call themselves whatever they feel comfortable with, but all legal and electoral documentation retains the older styles. |
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Post by cityslickr on Nov 22, 2024 0:43:22 GMT
And some without allegiance to the Crown may only vote in elections for Common Councilmen, not for Aldermen. Is this a clear category of voter or does one have to take an oath to the Crown before voting for Aldermen/Alderwomen? (Women holding the post are divided, at least on the website, between those using "Alderman" and "Alderwoman".) Voters don’t need to take an oath, but Aldermen (previously becoming Magistrates automatically on confirmation of election) had to be a subject of the Crown, so the same requirement applied to Aldermanic Electors. (When a citizen of the Irish Republic slipped through the system unnoticed, the Corporation had to perform mental gymnastics to legitimise his position) The effect of this is that European Union citizens on the Ward Lists are barred from voting in Aldermanic Elections, with the exception of Maltese, Cypriot and (anomalously) Irish Citizens. |
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Post by cityslickr on Nov 22, 2024 1:09:15 GMT
By Law, all ward counts must take place within the boundary of each ward, so we have up to 25 count centres simultaneously at every Common Council election. Elections staff have to be drafted in from a good number of London Boroughs to help out on polling day (the day after the date set for the election). Blimey. I know elections are not the biggest budget item for an authority but it is really a good idea to legislate inefficiency and waste into the system? Especially at the entry point for members of the council/court? Section 2 of the City of London Municipal Elections Act 1849 stated that any person voting in a poll for an Aldermanic or Common Council election should do so within the ward where that person’s qualifying address is situated. That formalised what was ‘custom and practice’. But it needs to be remembered that the election itself is performed at the Wardmote which necessarily takes place within the Ward. In the case of an uncontested election, on the set election day the Wardmote declares the candidate(s) elected. In the case of a contested election the election day Wardmote is suspended on the instruction of the Ward Beadle to allow a poll to take place on the weekday following the election day. On conclusion of the count following that poll the Wardmote is immediately resumed to declare the winner(s) in the poll to be duly elected. Given the interrelationship between the Wardmote and the poll (if required) it would require a fundamental change in electoral and democratic governance in the Corporation to facilitate centralised counting. So far as I’m aware, no-one has (since the Corporation’s Law Officers gave their opinion on this matter on 17th October 1902) suggested changing this requirement to count in each ward individually, despite the ‘Great Hall’ at Guildhall being large enough to act as a central count centre. The Returning Officer for each ward at Common Council elections and by-elections is that Ward’s Alderman. Where that may create a conflict of interest, Ward Aldermen swap Wards with other Ward Aldermen in their capacities as Returning Officer. The Returning Officer for Aldermanic Elections is the Lord Mayor or his locum tenens. |
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J.G.Harston
Lib Dem
Leave-voting Brexit-supporting Liberal Democrat
Posts: 14,769
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Post by J.G.Harston on Nov 22, 2024 7:46:21 GMT
Part of the ‘modernisation’ is the language battle. ‘Councillor’ for ‘councilman’, ‘Alder’ or ‘Alderperson’ or ‘Alderwoman’ for ‘Alderman’, That's a nonsense. "Alderman" is gender neutral. It quite literally means "elder person". |
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Post by timrollpickering on Nov 22, 2024 11:17:42 GMT
The effect of this is that European Union citizens on the Ward Lists are barred from voting in Aldermanic Elections, with the exception of Maltese, Cypriot and (anomalously) Irish Citizens. Assuming that Commonwealth citizens are voting then this overlooks the fact that citizens of republics in the Commonwealth aren't subjects of the Crown (despite what the organisation's critics claim) even though the monarch is also Head of the Commonwealth. For that matter citizens of the other Commonwealth Realms are now technically subjects of their own Crowns even if they happen to all sit on the same head. |
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Post by islington on Nov 22, 2024 11:24:55 GMT
Blimey. I know elections are not the biggest budget item for an authority but it is really a good idea to legislate inefficiency and waste into the system? Especially at the entry point for members of the council/court? Section 2 of the City of London Municipal Elections Act 1849 stated that any person voting in a poll for an Aldermanic or Common Council election should do so within the ward where that person’s qualifying address is situated. That formalised what was ‘custom and practice’. But it needs to be remembered that the election itself is performed at the Wardmote which necessarily takes place within the Ward. In the case of an uncontested election, on the set election day the Wardmote declares the candidate(s) elected. In the case of a contested election the election day Wardmote is suspended on the instruction of the Ward Beadle to allow a poll to take place on the weekday following the election day. On conclusion of the count following that poll the Wardmote is immediately resumed to declare the winner(s) in the poll to be duly elected. Given the interrelationship between the Wardmote and the poll (if required) it would require a fundamental change in electoral and democratic governance in the Corporation to facilitate centralised counting. So far as I’m aware, no-one has (since the Corporation’s Law Officers gave their opinion on this matter on 17th October 1902) suggested changing this requirement to count in each ward individually, despite the ‘Great Hall’ at Guildhall being large enough to act as a central count centre. The Returning Officer for each ward at Common Council elections and by-elections is that Ward’s Alderman. Where that may create a conflict of interest, Ward Aldermen swap Wards with other Ward Aldermen in their capacities as Returning Officer. The Returning Officer for Aldermanic Elections is the Lord Mayor or his locum tenens. Fascinating.
Can you (or anyone) recommend a good book or online source describing the evolution of the City's constitutional and electoral arrangements over time? I'm conscious that my understanding is quite limited, but am I correct in thinking that the City Corporation is the only body left outside the municipal reforms of the 19th century? From the 1830s, new boroughs were formed under statute and existing boroughs were modernized under successive waves of reform, at first voluntarily but later on pain of abolition if they did not accept reform (and a lot of small boroughs didn't get the option, and were abolished outright). But the City was exempted from all of this, and by the end of the century stood as the one remaining unreformed borough, as it still is today.
At one time the Corporation was like a miniature parliament, with an alderman for each of the 25(?) wards, elected for life, so let the Court of Aldermen correspond to the House of Lords. The 'House of Commons' was the Court of Common Council, which I think at one time consisted of about 250 councilmen, distributed between the wards roughly by size with each ward divided into the appropriate number of single-member precincts, so that the City discovered the virtues of the single-member seat some centuries before the House of Commons. Councilmen I assume were elected annually.
I'm not at all sure about the electorate. I presume that for the Common Council it was freemen, but was it Guild members for aldermen? I think it was Guild members for Parliamentary elections, at least until the First Reform in 1832 added voters meeting the burghal property qualification.
The content of the preceding three paragraphs represents essentially what I've gleaned from incidental references in books and websites that deal primarily with other topics, so any or all of it could easily be wrong. I'd be very grateful for any corrections, or further information on this subject.
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