Wales 2026+ Boundary Review

[carlton43]

Feb 16, 2024 5:51:12 GMT Penddu said:

There is a valid argument that the Ystradgynlais area should be transferred from Powys into NPT. And this then considered in the new boundaries.

But there is zero reason to add Neath to Brecon in the new arrangements. Uneccesary & unjustified.

It would match the distinguished name of the railway company and that should not be overlooked.

[Penddu]

I am not sure where I saw the rules - but yes - based on Local Authority areas - the red lines in Boundary Assistant. Nobody mentioned archaic/ historic/ preserved counties.

In practice you will have to cross boundaries simply because they are too small.

[johng]

Feb 16, 2024 5:51:53 GMT Penddu said:

In building up new seats, i thought it would be better to use general names instead of detailed names - for example
Neath, Port Talbot, Swansea Valley => West Glamorgan
Bridgend & Western Vale of Glam => Central Glamorgan
Rhondda, Pontypridd & Ely Valley => Mid Glamorgan
Merthyr, Cynon Valley & Rhymney Valley => North Glamorgan
Cardiff West & Barry => South Glamorgan

Just spotted one flaw.... Central and Mid both translate to Canol...tine to get my dictionary out...

Not sure with the obsession some have with local government districts that existed from 1974-1996. Longer before this review than they existed in total.

A recipe for confusion, too, with things like central and mid Glamorgan, and the whole of North Glamorgan being in the old Mid Glam 'county'.  Yuck!

[greatkingrat]

Glamorgan existed long before 1974. The alternative is long and unwieldy names that reference three or four different places.

[minionofmidas]

Feb 17, 2024 9:58:44 GMT greatkingrat said:

Glamorgan existed long before 1974. The alternative is long and unwieldy names that reference three or four different places.

If you want people to understand and accept these constituencies, it helps to have names that tell you what's in them even if they get a little unwieldy. We've been plagued with "South Wales Central" for far too long.

[Penddu]

Glamorgan has been around since 12th Century and is in common usage despite not officially existing today. I have added a simple geographical prefix to help describe where the constituency is.

The only people wedded to existing constituency names are party hacks. The general public dont care.

[Penddu]

Otherwise adopt the American system...Glamorgan District 1, 2 etc.

PITCHFORKS INCOMING......

[minionofmidas]

Feb 18, 2024 10:38:53 GMT Penddu said:

Glamorgan has been around since 12th Century and is in common usage despite not officially existing today. I have added a simple geographical prefix to help describe where the constituency is.

The only people wedded to existing constituency names are party hacks. The general public dont care.

of course everybody knows what Glamorgan entails; "North Glamorgan" or "Central Glamorgan" (I'd assume the old Taff-Ely district maybe) otoh...

[Penddu]

Feb 18, 2024 10:38:53 GMT Penddu said:

Glamorgan has been around since 12th Century and is in common usage despite not officially existing today. I have added a simple geographical prefix to help describe where the constituency is.

The only people wedded to existing constituency names are party hacks. The general public dont care.

I just checked - Glamorgan was first named in 11th century (not 12th) - as an anglicised version of Gwlad Morgan - which is reference to earlier kingdom of Morgannwg which was named in 10th Century.

It is a little bit older than 1974.

The 1974 'creations' are generally much older than this:
- Dyfed was in use in 5th century - but is a corruption of Demet which was in use pre-Roman times
- Gwent was named in 5th century
- Gwynedd was named around 5th century
- Powys was named around 6th century

It is only Clwyd which is an artificial 1974 creation which is named after the river Clwyd but which itself was named around 11th century.

[Davıd Boothroyd]

In the original proposals from 1967 (Cmnd 3340), there was no Clwyd; Gwynedd included Denbighshire and Flintshire. There was also a single Glamorgan.

[Sibboleth]

Feb 19, 2024 9:11:39 GMT Davıd Boothroyd said:

In the original proposals from 1967 (Cmnd 3340), there was no Clwyd; Gwynedd included Denbighshire and Flintshire. There was also a single Glamorgan.

This would likely have worked out better.

[East Anglian Lefty]

I'm somewhat surprised they used Clwyd when there were names for the approximate area of a similar vintage to those used for the other 1974 counties - perhaps a concern that Perfeddwlad would be too difficult for Anglophones to pronounce?

[Penddu]

Which is why they went for the easier Dyfed (which only originally covered lands to the west of River Tywi - Carmarthen Town) rather than the geographically more accurate Deheubarth.

Mind you BBC presenters still struggle with Dyfed (Diffid, Die-vid...).

[cibwr]

Feb 19, 2024 9:11:39 GMT Davıd Boothroyd said:

In the original proposals from 1967 (Cmnd 3340), there was no Clwyd; Gwynedd included Denbighshire and Flintshire. There was also a single Glamorgan.

However it proposed retaining Swansea, Cardiff and Newport as County Boroughs. An earlier report suggested a West Wales (essentially Dyfed as was) North West Wales (essentially Gwynedd as was) But Denbighshire, Flintshire and Montgomeryshire should form one county, Radnorshire, Breconshire and Monmouth as South East Wales.

Between these reports there was a suggestion of a mid Wales County of Southern Meirionnydd, Northern Ceredigion and Montgomery. It also proposed enlarging Caernarfonshire. The rest of the North East to be one county. The rest of Ceredigion, Pembrokeshire and Carmarthenshire to be one county. One Glamorgan county (with Swansea and Cardiff retaining their county borough status).