maxque
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Post by maxque on Dec 20, 2023 0:29:14 GMT
A point we are skirting around is that the allegation around Mr Bone is that he was a gay sex pest. I am beginning to wonder if we have a great enough sample size to examine the question of 1/Are gay men in positions of power more likely to be sex pests? 2/Are gay men in positions of power more likely to be the target of false accusations of sex pestery? 3/ Gay men are more likely to speak up when they are victims? |
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graham
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Post by graham on Dec 20, 2023 0:45:15 GMT
Turnout at the December 1969 by election here exceeded 75%. Any particular reason why? Was the nation in crisis? Not at all - it was quite normal for the time. At the 1966 GE turnout had been 86.5% |
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graham
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Post by graham on Dec 20, 2023 0:48:09 GMT
If you have a marginal seat, then collecting four parking tickets will be quite enough to persuade 10% of the electorate that you ought to be recalled. By contrast, if you have a safe enough seat and a trenchant enough electorate, then ......well just have a look at Ian Paisley Jnr. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Paisley_Jr Of the five seats to hold a recall petition to date Wellingborough was the safest so I’m sorry this comparison is far from watertight. But Labour does have history in the seat - having held it 1997 - 2005 when narrowly lost - also 1964 - December 1969 -and 1945 - 1959. This is not at all like Mid Bedfordshire. |
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Post by Adam in Stroud on Dec 20, 2023 1:01:15 GMT
If Bone stands , he will split the Tory vote and seriously weaken any challenge mounted by Reform. Oh I do hope so very much indeed. I hope he wins but if not that he beats those two out of sight.I'm intrigued: I get why you support Bone, and all your antipathy to the current Conservative Party . What is your objection to Reform? Previously you have spoken quite warmly of Farage, who is its eminence gris. |
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Post by Adam in Stroud on Dec 20, 2023 1:06:44 GMT
It probably won't be a winter by-election. March looks likelier That might have implications for the date of the GE. With April or May being scouted as possibles, a by-election in March which went badly for the government would be a bit of a nuisance for Sunak if he was planning on calling an election immediately after the Budget. Can he put off the by-election long enough to hold the Budget and then have the By-Election subsumed into the General Election? |
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Post by Adam in Stroud on Dec 20, 2023 1:12:43 GMT
10% is fine. Remember that Recall is already very restrictive in our system. The higher the threshold, the more power given to MPs, and the whole point is to give power to the people. Leaving aside the precise threshold, Bone's argument is that far more people didn't sign, which he takes as an endorsement. The latter us a non-sequitur, but you could introduce a control whereby which people could actively vote against recall, and require the petition to not only surpass 10% but also to exceed the vote against recall. |
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Post by Strontium Dog on Dec 20, 2023 2:08:53 GMT
Wouldn't put it past him. "Reform" being the party of people who don't want reform, they want to rewind. Actually, since names starting with 'Re-' seem to be in vogue in this part of the political spectrum, 'Rewind' would be a far more suitable name than either 'Reform' or 'Reclaim'; it would be a much better, or at least more honest, expression of their outlook and aims. Retard would be even more accurate. |
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Post by Strontium Dog on Dec 20, 2023 2:17:08 GMT
Leaving aside the precise threshold, Bone's argument is that far more people didn't sign, which he takes as an endorsement. By his own logic, more eligible voters didn't vote for him in 2019 than did, so he shouldn't have been elected in the first instance. |
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Post by johnloony on Dec 20, 2023 2:52:30 GMT
10% is fine. Remember that Recall is already very restrictive in our system. The higher the threshold, the more power given to MPs, and the whole point is to give power to the people. Leaving aside the precise threshold, Bone's argument is that far more people didn't sign, which he takes as an endorsement. The latter us a non-sequitur, but you could introduce a control whereby which people could actively vote against recall, and require the petition to not only surpass 10% but also to exceed the vote against recall. That is the system I would prefer. If an elector doesn’t want the MP to be recalled, or if he thinks that the offence was so trivial that it doesn’t deserve disqualification, there is no opportunity to say so by voting against recall. If one leaves aside what one thinks about Bone or the SNP or whatever, I would not have wanted to recall either this one or the recent one in Scotland. The thing about breaking Covid regulations was too trivial (especially 2 or 3 years after the event) that it didn’t deserve a by-election or an unseating of the MP. The way the system currently works is that a recall petition is likely to succeed or fail depending on the organisation ability of the opposition parties locally, and the unpopularity of the MP generally, rather than the merits or the seriousness of the individual case against the MP. It’s a bit like having a referendum: “Do You Want a By-Election?” With only a “Yes” option. |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Dec 20, 2023 3:00:06 GMT
There's a pretty large black population in Wellingborough itself, for a medium sized town - especially on the Hemmingwell estate |
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Post by yellowperil on Dec 20, 2023 7:25:18 GMT
10% is fine. Remember that Recall is already very restrictive in our system. The higher the threshold, the more power given to MPs, and the whole point is to give power to the people. Leaving aside the precise threshold, Bone's argument is that far more people didn't sign, which he takes as an endorsement. The latter us a non-sequitur, but you could introduce a control whereby which people could actively vote against recall, and require the petition to not only surpass 10% but also to exceed the vote against recall. There's a lot to be said for that, but it would bring us a lot nearer to a first stage by-election to be followed, maybe, by the real thing. Which might have its effects in terms of voter fatigue, etc. |
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Post by iainbhx on Dec 20, 2023 8:05:54 GMT
On due consideration, I do think 10% is too low, I think 20% would be more reasonable. I think there should be a recall process, but I think what we have needs some work. Perhaps an increase in the period suspended as well.
I appreciate the argument about the electorate deciding and I think that in at least two cases so far, it would have been correct not to go to recall.
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Post by mattbewilson on Dec 20, 2023 8:45:45 GMT
On due consideration, I do think 10% is too low, I think 20% would be more reasonable. I think there should be a recall process, but I think what we have needs some work. Perhaps an increase in the period suspended as well. I appreciate the argument about the electorate deciding and I think that in at least two cases so far, it would have been correct not to go to recall. I've said it previously but i think there's an argument to make it easier to trigger a recall petition but in exchange I think making the threshold higher to trigger a by election is an acceptable compromise |
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Post by heslingtonian on Dec 20, 2023 8:55:07 GMT
Worth remembering that recall petitions were introduced by a Conservative Government and some of its main proponents were Douglas Carswell and Zac Goldsmith before people label the system as a far Left conspiracy.
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Dec 20, 2023 9:51:44 GMT
Wellingborough has a reputation for being rough even in Northampton, which is itself a town with a much higher crime rate than you'd expect. |
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Post by matureleft on Dec 20, 2023 10:17:32 GMT
Wellingborough has a reputation for being rough even in Northampton, which is itself a town with a much higher crime rate than you'd expect. Yes. There’s a media campaign plus some local activists so I can now readily see how it’s been picked up by a candidate. I was always grateful to spend my political life in places where serious crime was pretty rare. |
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Post by doktorb🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️ on Dec 20, 2023 11:05:08 GMT
Worth remembering that recall petitions were introduced by a Conservative Government and some of its main proponents were Douglas Carswell and Zac Goldsmith before people label the system as a far Left conspiracy. And they were part of the "power back to the people, end the Westminster power grab" brigade, the 'anti elite' thread running through Brexit supporters. UKIP once supported proportional representation, on the same terms. |
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Sandy
Forum Regular
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Post by Sandy on Dec 20, 2023 11:33:03 GMT
Worth remembering that recall petitions were introduced by a Conservative Government and some of its main proponents were Douglas Carswell and Zac Goldsmith before people label the system as a far Left conspiracy. Unsurprising, both first class Libertarian tossers. |
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J.G.Harston
Lib Dem
Leave-voting Brexit-supporting Liberal Democrat
Posts: 14,787
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Post by J.G.Harston on Dec 20, 2023 12:29:15 GMT
10% is fine. Remember that Recall is already very restrictive in our system. The higher the threshold, the more power given to MPs, and the whole point is to give power to the people. Leaving aside the precise threshold, Bone's argument is that far more people didn't sign, which he takes as an endorsement. The latter us a non-sequitur, but you could introduce a control whereby which people could actively vote against recall, and require the petition to not only surpass 10% but also to exceed the vote against recall. The media keep using "voters" instead of "electors", but let's take them at their word. What if recall required a majority of ****VOTERS****, not electors, to kick out an MP? Then is *would* be evidence that those that put the MP in place wished to get rid of them. |
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Post by evergreenadam on Dec 20, 2023 12:30:59 GMT
Of the five seats to hold a recall petition to date Wellingborough was the safest so I’m sorry this comparison is far from watertight. But Labour does have history in the seat - having held it 1997 - 2005 when narrowly lost - also 1964 - December 1969 -and 1945 - 1959. This is not at all like Mid Bedfordshire. Does the seat have more or less of a rural hinterland than back then? |
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