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Post by johnloony on May 22, 2023 9:52:05 GMT
I’d second the nomination of Tony Cook. Accepting that it was a long time ago my impression was that it was his personal failings, rather than a misplaced or inadequate campaign that led to his loss, but also because it seemed to be the beginning of the end of the SDP momentum, so arguably had a longer term effect on the fortunes of his party, making him the worse candidate for a party mentioned so far There's a fascinating long internal memo from Bill Rodgers (a neighbouring MP) written just after the Darlington byelection, which was published in the Journal of Liberal History in 2015 which lays out the problems with Tony Cook: liberalhistory.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/39-Rodgers-Rennard-Darlington.pdfInteresting - I remember Darlington as being primarily a need for Labour to hold the seat in order to save Michael Foot’s leadership. But hold against a Conservative gain. I don’t remember any Alliance surge. |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on May 22, 2023 9:59:58 GMT
Were they anticipating a by-election in Cardiff? Michael Roberts, the Conservative MP for Cardiff North West had collapsed and died in the Commons in February, but a by election was being avoided as the general election was (sort of) imminent and the constituency was being abolished (having only been created for the Feb 1974 election).
Dafydd Wigley asked a question about it in the Commons on the 11th of April and the Speaker said it was nothing to do with him, unless he received an application for a writ. Wigley moved the writ on 19 April but the Government opposed it, and moved an amendment to delay issuing the writ to Tuesday 10 May - carried on a division, 306-60. On Monday 9 May, the Prime Minister asked for a dissolution of Parliament and on 10 May the order for the writ was discharged. |
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Post by johnloony on May 22, 2023 10:02:36 GMT
and we're talking specifically by-elections anyway (says he extremely rudely - sorry finso) Won't anybody think of the thread drift?  Have you never heard of Rorke? Did she die in vain? |
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Post by islington on May 22, 2023 10:17:12 GMT
Interesting - I remember Darlington as being primarily a need for Labour to hold the seat in order to save Michael Foot’s leadership. But hold against a Conservative gain. I don’t remember any Alliance surge. Oh, no, it was definitely about the SDP / Liberal surge, look at other byelections that had taken place in the previous few months.
The Labour candidate, Ossie O'Brien, was an acquaintance of mine and given the national political situation he went into the campaign confidently expecting defeat at the hands of the SDP. But Tony Cook, although a superficially attractive candidate, wilted under the spotlight of a high-profile byelection and Ossie came out on top. Not for long, though, because in the GE a few months later he lost the seat to the Tories.
Looking back, it was a hugely consequential byelection because it stopped the SDP bandwagon in its tracks.
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carlton43
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Post by carlton43 on May 22, 2023 10:29:39 GMT
Won't anybody think of the thread drift? Have you never heard of Rorke? Did she die in vain? No. She didn't die Natal but some of her supporters got V. Cross. |
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Post by finsobruce on May 22, 2023 10:31:53 GMT
Won't anybody think of the thread drift? Have you never heard of Rorke? Did she die in vain? Rorke, an Irish trader, shot himself in 1875 and his poverty stricken widow had to sell the homestead to the Swedish Missionary Society, which is what the Witts are doing there when the battle happened. |
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Post by johnloony on May 22, 2023 11:52:02 GMT
Interesting - I remember Darlington as being primarily a need for Labour to hold the seat in order to save Michael Foot’s leadership. But hold against a Conservative gain. I don’t remember any Alliance surge. Oh, no, it was definitely about the SDP / Liberal surge, look at other byelections that had taken place in the previous few months. The Labour candidate, Ossie O'Brien, was an acquaintance of mine and given the national political situation he went into the campaign confidently expecting defeat at the hands of the SDP. But Tony Cook, although a superficially attractive candidate, wilted under the spotlight of a high-profile byelection and Ossie came out on top. Not for long, though, because in the GE a few months later he lost the seat to the Tories.
Looking back, it was a hugely consequential byelection because it stopped the SDP bandwagon in its tracks.
Oh yes, I understand all that. I was just making the point that my memory had faded. |
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Post by olympian95 on May 22, 2023 12:04:19 GMT
From a Labour perspective Tatchell, Wood and Gillespie are all decent shouts. It was because of those disasters that the national party took much greater control over selections for parliamentary by-elections, the effect of which was seen in Vauxhall just half a year after Govan. Which brings me to a more recent example - it is doubtful if Labour could have held Hartlepool with any candidate when that byelection was held, but the person the leadership decided on proved to be hopelessly ill-suited in almost all respects. There is some old Thames TV footage on youtube somewhere of the Bermondsey by-election, which does rather show how bad a fit Tatchell was for this seat (the scenes of him canvassing and meeting voters were excruciating). Reminded me of the Comic Strip GLC spoof from the mid to late 80s. |
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Post by uthacalthing on May 22, 2023 12:46:43 GMT
Have you never heard of Rorke? Did she die in vain? No. She didn't die Natal but some of her supporters got V. Cross. She was born Natal as well, so didnt move the arguement very far |
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on May 22, 2023 13:02:08 GMT
Crimson King posting previously in this thread reminded me of Joy Atkin at the Bradford North byelection in 1990. Has to be up there.
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Post by finsobruce on May 22, 2023 13:35:03 GMT
Crimson King posting previously in this thread reminded me of Joy Atkin at the Bradford North byelection in 1990. Has to be up there. She was the one who had some of her publicity photos taken with her standing in a graveyard or similar iirc.
Almost certainly not her choice of course : "No, really it'll look great!".
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Crimson King
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Post by Crimson King on May 22, 2023 14:26:32 GMT
Crimson King posting previously in this thread reminded me of Joy Atkin at the Bradford North byelection in 1990. Has to be up there. She was the one who had some of her publicity photos taken with her standing in a graveyard or similar iirc. Almost certainly not her choice of course : "No, really it'll look great!".
Presumably the Undercliffe Cemetary, which is a major heritage asset and could well have been a significant issue in the by-election (I was there, but memory fades) so you can see why the location might have been chosen, but all the same…. |
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Post by finsobruce on May 22, 2023 15:08:05 GMT
She was the one who had some of her publicity photos taken with her standing in a graveyard or similar iirc. Almost certainly not her choice of course : "No, really it'll look great!".
Presumably the Undercliffe Cemetary, which is a major heritage asset and could well have been a significant issue in the by-election (I was there, but memory fades) so you can see why the location might have been chosen, but all the same…. Only photo i could find was one of her with Eric Pickles and Spencer Batiste...
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Post by rcronald on May 22, 2023 16:12:43 GMT
I could be wrong, since it was the first by election I closely followed, but from what I remember Tamsin Dunwoody was a dreadful candidate in Crewe.
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zoe
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Post by zoe on May 22, 2023 16:19:24 GMT
I could be wrong, since it was the first by election I closely followed, but from what I remember Tamsin Dunwoody was a dreadful candidate in Crewe. Also a terrible Labour campaign depicting Timpson as a toff which the candidate almost assuredly had no input into. |
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Post by rcronald on May 22, 2023 16:30:05 GMT
I could be wrong, since it was the first by election I closely followed, but from what I remember Tamsin Dunwoody was a dreadful candidate in Crewe. Also a terrible Labour campaign depicting Timpson as a toff which the candidate almost assuredly had no input into. I guess it was the Labour campaign’s fault as much as her, but it was truly embarrassing. |
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Post by batman on May 22, 2023 16:49:21 GMT
Were they anticipating a by-election in Cardiff? Michael Roberts, the Conservative MP for Cardiff North West had collapsed and died in the Commons in February, but a by election was being avoided as the general election was (sort of) imminent and the constituency was being abolished (having only been created for the Feb 1974 election).
Dafydd Wigley asked a question about it in the Commons on the 11th of April and the Speaker said it was nothing to do with him, unless he received an application for a writ. the Speaker at the time being a Cardiff MP himself, representing the neighbouring constituency. |
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Post by gwynthegriff on May 22, 2023 17:46:51 GMT
I could be wrong, since it was the first by election I closely followed, but from what I remember Tamsin Dunwoody was a dreadful candidate in Crewe. That's certainly not the impression I got at the time (and I was pretty closely involved, though not on the Labour side!). Basically Labour knew that the tide was running heavily against them and took a view that a candidate who could trade on the reputation of the recently-deceased member was a better prospect than someone with less name recognition. Not saying she was a particularly good candidate but neither IMO was she, personally, a liability. Incidentally I felt she deserved considerable credit for the speech she gave at the count given the circumstances. |
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Post by uthacalthing on May 22, 2023 19:17:36 GMT
The tie-breaker surely is who was better, Gwyneth Dunwoody or Primal Scream. I think both were hugely overrated
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Post by gwynthegriff on May 22, 2023 19:33:22 GMT
The tie-breaker surely is who was better, Gwyneth Dunwoody or Primal Scream. I think both were hugely overrated My opinion of Gwyneth Dunwoody, with whom I had a long and amiable acquaintance of over thirty years, is one not widely shared among the local political class. |
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