islington
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Post by islington on Jan 13, 2023 18:04:19 GMT
That part is particularly frustrating. Time was Conservative politicians would have the business nouse to use the freedom of WTO trading to *remove* tarrifs, and the political nouse to bribe the electorate with cheap goods, this lot have imposed tarrifs and made goods more expensive. Inept, incompetent, clueless. I could see that a party of free trade would want to reduce tariffs, not put them up. Even eliminate some of them. Not all mind. If we got rid of tariffs on steel, the remainder of our steel industry would be destroyed by " dumping". Tariffs are sometimes necessary. Free trade deals are preferable. WTO rules on tariffs are strict. It's odd that a self styled party of business would choose WTO tariffs over free trade. Would someone like to have a go at persuading me that 'dumping' is a real thing?
I've always assumed that it's what manufacturers say when what they mean is that overseas suppliers are producing goods more efficiently and cheaply.
Like when retailers defend poor sales by saying that 'market conditions are unprecedentedly tough', which I've always mentally translated as meaning 'we're trying to sell things the public doesn't want to buy'.
So - is dumping real? Are there any properly documented cases of it? Why would it be in the interests of overseas manufacturers to do this? And if it is in manufacturers' interests, why don't British manufacturers do it?
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Post by John Chanin on Jan 13, 2023 20:17:40 GMT
I could see that a party of free trade would want to reduce tariffs, not put them up. Even eliminate some of them. Not all mind. If we got rid of tariffs on steel, the remainder of our steel industry would be destroyed by " dumping". Tariffs are sometimes necessary. Free trade deals are preferable. WTO rules on tariffs are strict. It's odd that a self styled party of business would choose WTO tariffs over free trade. Would someone like to have a go at persuading me that 'dumping' is a real thing?
I've always assumed that it's what manufacturers say when what they mean is that overseas suppliers are producing goods more efficiently and cheaply.
Like when retailers defend poor sales by saying that 'market conditions are unprecedentedly tough', which I've always mentally translated as meaning 'we're trying to sell things the public doesn't want to buy'.
So - is dumping real? Are there any properly documented cases of it? Why would it be in the interests of overseas manufacturers to do this? And if it is in manufacturers' interests, why don't British manufacturers do it?
It would take hours of research which I am not prepared to do to give you examples. But yes there are documented cases where products are sold below cost of production. It’s simple market failure, which is common. Supplier estimates demand for product and produces accordingly. Unfortunately people turn out not to want to buy the product. So best thing to do is get rid of it at any price, since something is better than nothing, even if it is well below cost of production. This of course happens all the time in fashion and no-one thinks twice about it, because production runs are small, and products are varied. Problems arise when production runs are large and timescales long. Take cars for example, or airplanes, both of which end up parked in the desert because no-one wants to pay for them. Sell them below cost and at least get some money in to prevent bankruptcy.
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Post by rockefeller on Jan 14, 2023 4:55:50 GMT
Lol. 1997 election on steroids and 2015 redux in Scotland
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Jan 14, 2023 10:29:08 GMT
Again, that Scottish situation would not happen with 400 Labour MPs never mind 500.
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nodealbrexiteer
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Post by nodealbrexiteer on Jan 14, 2023 12:22:44 GMT
Again, that Scottish situation would not happen with 400 Labour MPs never mind 500. A fantasy revenge for 1931
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Post by michaelarden on Jan 14, 2023 13:46:16 GMT
Again, that Scottish situation would not happen with 400 Labour MPs never mind 500. If the SNP keep polling close to 50% there's not many seats Labour can pick up regardless of their UK wide lead.
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Jan 15, 2023 10:10:28 GMT
Again, that Scottish situation would not happen with 400 Labour MPs never mind 500. If the SNP keep polling close to 50% there's not many seats Labour can pick up regardless of their UK wide lead. Firstly, most Scottish polls aren't saying that currently. Secondly the idea that they still would in a GE campaign, were it obvious to all that Labour were headed for a big win nationally, is rather an assumption.
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Tony Otim
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Post by Tony Otim on Jan 15, 2023 11:36:56 GMT
In any event, predicting Scottish seats based on a UK wide poll is a pretty pointless and unhelpful exercise...
Most recent Scottish polls would indicate more Labour gains than that (although somewhat offset by SNP gains from the Tories).
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Jan 15, 2023 11:46:00 GMT
In any event, predicting Scottish seats based on a UK wide poll is a pretty pointless and unhelpful exercise... But people still do it, all the time.
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Post by yellowperil on Jan 15, 2023 12:05:36 GMT
In any event, predicting Scottish seats based on a UK wide poll is a pretty pointless and unhelpful exercise... But people still do it, all the time. Maybe they'll stop after independence? Or is that too much to hope for?
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clyde1998
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Post by clyde1998 on Jan 15, 2023 14:03:38 GMT
In any event, predicting Scottish seats based on a UK wide poll is a pretty pointless and unhelpful exercise... Most recent Scottish polls would indicate more Labour gains than that (although somewhat offset by SNP gains from the Tories). The underlying numbers in the recent Scottish polls suggest Labour are gaining more votes from the Conservatives and Lib Dems than the SNP - the most recent Survation poll showed Labour gaining around double the amount of the Tories and Libs as from the SNP; the SNP retaining 86% of their 2019 vote. It's unclear what the exact distribution of votes would be, but even with Labour on ~30% in Scotland, they could be gaining votes in areas where it won't benefit them much. Compared to other parties, the SNP's vote share across Scotland is very flat (with the exception of Edinburgh South). If the SNP retain a large percentage of their 2019 vote, and remain around the 45% nationally, there'll be limited opportunities for Labour to gain much more seats than in 2017.
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maxque
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Post by maxque on Jan 15, 2023 20:23:58 GMT
I could see that a party of free trade would want to reduce tariffs, not put them up. Even eliminate some of them. Not all mind. If we got rid of tariffs on steel, the remainder of our steel industry would be destroyed by " dumping". Tariffs are sometimes necessary. Free trade deals are preferable. WTO rules on tariffs are strict. It's odd that a self styled party of business would choose WTO tariffs over free trade. Would someone like to have a go at persuading me that 'dumping' is a real thing?
I've always assumed that it's what manufacturers say when what they mean is that overseas suppliers are producing goods more efficiently and cheaply.
Like when retailers defend poor sales by saying that 'market conditions are unprecedentedly tough', which I've always mentally translated as meaning 'we're trying to sell things the public doesn't want to buy'.
So - is dumping real? Are there any properly documented cases of it? Why would it be in the interests of overseas manufacturers to do this? And if it is in manufacturers' interests, why don't British manufacturers do it?
USA government is an expert in dumping. They heavily subsidize some industries, allowing them to sell at a lower price than other countries hoping to drive that same industry in other countries out of business. Obviously, a big part of it is caused by fiscal prostitution between states, where every state is offering more and more money, glfts and tax breaks to corporations so they come to their state rather than another one.
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andrewp
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Post by andrewp on Jan 20, 2023 12:21:45 GMT
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andrewp
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Post by andrewp on Jan 25, 2023 21:45:11 GMT
People Polling 24th Jan
Lab: 50% (+5) Con: 21% (-) Lib Dems: 8% (-1) Reform: 7% (-1) Greens: 5% (-4)
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Post by lackeroftalent on Feb 3, 2023 12:17:06 GMT
People Polling 1st Feb
Lab: 46% -4 Con: 22% +1 LDm: 9% +1 Rfm: 7% - Grn: 7% +2 SNP: 5% -1 PC: 2% +1 other: 2%
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andrewp
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Post by andrewp on Feb 11, 2023 12:57:00 GMT
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batman
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Post by batman on Feb 11, 2023 17:14:04 GMT
this must be the slow, steady & encouraging real progress for the Tories we read about yesterday.
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Post by manchesterman on Feb 11, 2023 22:35:32 GMT
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andrewp
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Post by andrewp on Feb 17, 2023 11:50:28 GMT
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Feb 24, 2023 11:30:11 GMT
I see this lot have Reform at a "record" 9% in their latest poll. Hmmmm.
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