Green vote in 1989

[manchesterman]

Feb 10, 2022 20:57:45 GMT timrollpickering said:

Feb 10, 2022 19:17:37 GMT swanarcadian said:

Both the Liberals and continuing SDP receiving single digit poll ratings

Don't forget the Social and Liberal Democrats SLDP SaLaDs "Democrats" or [Whatever They Were Called That Week].

Perhaps they should have stuck with LSD.

Is that "Psychedelic Movement", who stood at the Southend West by election, a spin-off?

[owainsutton]

I spy Jean Lambert, in London North East, ended up serving 20 years as MEP from 1999 on.

Also Brian Candeland in Greater Manchester Central, who I nowadays know well, still very much an active member even though he never gained elected office himself.

[Davıd Boothroyd]

A poor quality scan but here's Home Office Statistical Bulletin 2/90 which has the full candidate names and descriptions and some additional statistics.

[greenhert]

Feb 10, 2022 21:04:56 GMT owainsutton said:

I spy Jean Lambert, in London North East, ended up serving 20 years as MEP from 1999 on.

Also Brian Candeland in Greater Manchester Central, who I nowadays know well, still very much an active member even though he never gained elected office himself.

Other notable Greens (or now ex-Greens) who stood in the 1989 European elections include Richard Lawson, Felicity Norman, Derek Wall, Jan Clark, Clive Lord, and (God rest their souls) Margaret Wright and Penny Kemp. I have met a few of the others also.

[J.G.Harston]

Feb 10, 2022 18:24:01 GMT manchesterman said:

As mentioned earlier this wasnt long after Chernobyl, and also Three Mile Island.The environment had had its profile raised by Greenpeace activities / publicity stunts (rainbow Warrior etc) and this was the first time I really felt a sense of "we're killing our planet very slowly if we dont change tack in some ways" and I think that resonated with a lot of people at the time.

Also Thatcherism was entering its death throws, Labour under Kinnock wasnt really cutting through as much as it could have, and the Liberals/SDP were into internecine squabling around this time too, so there was an element of them being a useful tactical/protest vote repository too. I voted Green in the 89 Euros.

Also, without banging one of my favourite drums again, they emphasised how - unlike under FPTP in UK elections - a vote for the Greens could have tangible results and not just be a "wasted vote", so that probably improved their actual vote numbers much more than a FPTP Euro election would have done.

Was that the election after which the Greens had a stunt where they carried something like 20 extra chairs into the EU Chamber calling out "this is how many should have been elected".

I was in Stirling in 1989, while I am sure I voted - I'm sure I voted in every election while there, the polling station was Airthy Castle - I have no memory of who I voted for.

[owainsutton]

Feb 10, 2022 22:09:54 GMT J.G.Harston said:

Feb 10, 2022 18:24:01 GMT manchesterman said:

As mentioned earlier this wasnt long after Chernobyl, and also Three Mile Island.The environment had had its profile raised by Greenpeace activities / publicity stunts (rainbow Warrior etc) and this was the first time I really felt a sense of "we're killing our planet very slowly if we dont change tack in some ways" and I think that resonated with a lot of people at the time.

Also Thatcherism was entering its death throws, Labour under Kinnock wasnt really cutting through as much as it could have, and the Liberals/SDP were into internecine squabling around this time too, so there was an element of them being a useful tactical/protest vote repository too. I voted Green in the 89 Euros.

Also, without banging one of my favourite drums again, they emphasised how - unlike under FPTP in UK elections - a vote for the Greens could have tangible results and not just be a "wasted vote", so that probably improved their actual vote numbers much more than a FPTP Euro election would have done.

Was that the election after which the Greens had a stunt where they carried something like 20 extra chairs into the EU Chamber calling out "this is how many should have been elected".

I was in Stirling in 1989, while I am sure I voted - I'm sure I voted in every election while there, the polling station was Airthy Castle - I have no memory of who I voted for.

Very Lib Dem, to complain about pro-PR protests.

[timrollpickering]

I think this was also the election when David Steel learnt that the Democrats or [Whatever] aren't very popular in other countries as well. His Spitting Image puppet got it so right.

[johnloony]

I remember at one stage the suggested name for the merged party was “Democratic Union of Liberals and Social Democrats” until someone pointed out that the acronym was DULSODS.

The original official name was “Social & Liberal Democrats” and they added “it should be ‘Democrats’ for short”. Almost everybody in the media ignored or forgot the second bit and just always said “Ess Ell Dee” instead - which is probably why they dropped the “Social &” bit after a year.

In 1989 I was in a training scheme for unemployed people. There were about 12 people in our group, almost all of whom voted Green. It seemed to be the default option for marginalised groups at the time. I was a bit less rebellious because I voted Labour. I went on to vote Green in 1994 and UKIP in 1999.

[minionofmidas]

Feb 10, 2022 19:54:39 GMT owainsutton said:

Feb 10, 2022 19:19:53 GMT minionofmidas said:

here's an abstract of a scholarly article from 1989. One of the issues mentioned hasn't been mentioned in the thread yet... but then it faded rather starkly from public view after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

For some reason, the abstract isn't showing up for me on that page.

But it's probably what I was alluding to earlier, about things that have changed for the world!

lol, apparently I didn't realize last night that the abstract I meant was not for

The 1989 European election: Protest or green tide?
J. Curtice, published 1 December 1989

which is available via the 'via publisher' link but is perfectly uninteresting, but for the first citation:

The Greening of British Politics
C. Rootes, 1991
Summary The spectacular success of the British Greens in winning 15% of the vote in the 1989 elections for the European parliament contrasts starkly with their previous failures. The turnaround in their fortunes is attributable in part to increasing awareness of environmental issues, both domestic and global, but especially to changes in the state of party competition: the collapse of the Liberal and Social Democratic Alliance, the unpopularity and negative campaign of the Conservative party, and the Labour party's abandonment of unilateral nuclear disarmament, all exacerbated by low turnout in an election for a parliament few Britons knew or cared much about. It is likely, however, that in a general election more usual conditions of political competition will obtain and that, because of the disciplines of the British electroal system, the Greens' success of 1989 will not be repeated in national elections.

The titles of the two essays seem almost reversed compared to their contents.

[froome]

Feb 10, 2022 21:40:49 GMT greenhert said:

Feb 10, 2022 21:04:56 GMT owainsutton said:

I spy Jean Lambert, in London North East, ended up serving 20 years as MEP from 1999 on.

Also Brian Candeland in Greater Manchester Central, who I nowadays know well, still very much an active member even though he never gained elected office himself.

Other notable Greens (or now ex-Greens) who stood in the 1989 European elections include Richard Lawson, Felicity Norman, Derek Wall, Jan Clark, Clive Lord, and (God rest their souls) Margaret Wright and Penny Kemp. I have met a few of the others also.

A few others there are now, or have been until fairly recently, councillors and certainly will be well known in their localities. Sue Blount in Nottingham is now Sue Mallender and a councillor in Rushcliffe, while Tim Andrewes, who then stood in Oxford, became our first councillor in Cornwall in 2013. Our candidate in Cotswolds was Sue Limb, who by that time was already a well-known writer.

[owainsutton]

Feb 11, 2022 7:21:40 GMT froome said:

Feb 10, 2022 21:40:49 GMT greenhert said:

Other notable Greens (or now ex-Greens) who stood in the 1989 European elections include Richard Lawson, Felicity Norman, Derek Wall, Jan Clark, Clive Lord, and (God rest their souls) Margaret Wright and Penny Kemp. I have met a few of the others also.

A few others there are now, or have been until fairly recently, councillors and certainly will be well known in their localities. Sue Blount in Nottingham is now Sue Mallender and a councillor in Rushcliffe, while Tim Andrewes, who then stood in Oxford, became our first councillor in Cornwall in 2013. Our candidate in Cotswolds was Sue Limb, who by that time was already a well-known writer.

Brian's pointed out Lawrence Brown, now a councillor in Liverpool.

[froome]

Feb 11, 2022 9:50:00 GMT owainsutton said:

Feb 11, 2022 7:21:40 GMT froome said:

A few others there are now, or have been until fairly recently, councillors and certainly will be well known in their localities. Sue Blount in Nottingham is now Sue Mallender and a councillor in Rushcliffe, while Tim Andrewes, who then stood in Oxford, became our first councillor in Cornwall in 2013. Our candidate in Cotswolds was Sue Limb, who by that time was already a well-known writer.

Brian's pointed out Lawrence Brown, now a councillor in Liverpool.

I didn't notice Lawrence in the list. I stayed with him for one of the Liverpool conferences a few years ago. A lovely bloke.

[The Bishop]

Feb 11, 2022 4:21:26 GMT minionofmidas said:

Feb 10, 2022 19:54:39 GMT owainsutton said:

For some reason, the abstract isn't showing up for me on that page.

But it's probably what I was alluding to earlier, about things that have changed for the world!

lol, apparently I didn't realize last night that the abstract I meant was not for

The 1989 European election: Protest or green tide?
J. Curtice, published 1 December 1989

which is available via the 'via publisher' link but is perfectly uninteresting, but for the first citation:

The Greening of British Politics
C. Rootes, 1991
Summary The spectacular success of the British Greens in winning 15% of the vote in the 1989 elections for the European parliament contrasts starkly with their previous failures. The turnaround in their fortunes is attributable in part to increasing awareness of environmental issues, both domestic and global, but especially to changes in the state of party competition: the collapse of the Liberal and Social Democratic Alliance, the unpopularity and negative campaign of the Conservative party, and the Labour party's abandonment of unilateral nuclear disarmament, all exacerbated by low turnout in an election for a parliament few Britons knew or cared much about. It is likely, however, that in a general election more usual conditions of political competition will obtain and that, because of the disciplines of the British electroal system, the Greens' success of 1989 will not be repeated in national elections.

The titles of the two essays seem almost reversed compared to their contents.

Whilst it was indeed a fairly open secret to those in the know, Labour didn't actually abandon unilateralism until the 1989 conference - months *after* the Euro elections.

[piperdave]

Feb 10, 2022 18:38:24 GMT No Offence Alan said:

The 1989 Euro election was under FPTP.
Greens 14.5% - no seats. SNP 3% - 1 seat.

Not exactly comparing like with like.