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Post by bjornhattan on Jan 3, 2022 22:47:36 GMT
Not much of Bedford west of the town centre is that poor, although Labour enjoys some middle-class support around the Poets Estate north of Midland station. There are some quite pleasant areas of the town. The town is however a bit lopsided with the town centre towards the west of the built-up area, so if you include the town centre it's sort of true - this lopsidedness is also a characteristic of Oxford & Cambridge. Things are also a bit complicated by the Kempston factor. Oxford is quite complex in terms of social class, and for many years West ward was the safest (in certain years, the only) Labour ward in the city, although the Oxford East constituency has always been far better for Labour than West & Abingdon. Queens Park and Cauldwell were the main pockets of deprivation in the west that I saw - though the latter is south of the town centre even if it's towards the west of the urban area as you say. Oxford is an interesting one. I'd say it has one of the more distinct east-west splits, albeit at a slight angle so it's more of a SE-NW split. There is certainly a gradual transition from extremely affluent North Oxford through the gentrified streets just across Magdalen Bridge and the more socially mixed streets further down the Cowley Road and finally more deprived areas in Cowley itself (and particularly Blackbird Leys, at the most extreme end of the spectrum both socially and geographically). But there are complicating factors like Headington (pretty well off but surrounded by estates like Wood Farm, Barton, and Northway), and the southern part of the city centre contains a lot of pretty run down council housing. I'm guessing the latter formed the basis for the West ward? |
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bsjmcr
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Post by bsjmcr on Jan 3, 2022 22:56:36 GMT
Mirfield (previously astutely mentioned earlier on as being a strongly Conservative part of Dewsbury constituency) is to the east of Huddersfield - but the west of Dewsbury, so depending on how you look at it...
The Crosland Moor/Lockwood areas directly west of Huddersfield aren't particularly salubrious, you have to go quite some way westwards well into Colne Valley to Slaithwaite/Marsden which are the up-and-coming villages, the future Holmfirths if you like. Indeed Colne Valley constituency is to a much lesser extent a bit of a mirror of Oldham E&S'worth by inclusion of the Crosland Moor/Netherton ward.
Salford is to the west of Manchester but one could argue it is a city in itself (so the poorer east applies) but there is also the river/Ship Canal factor i.e. the Quays area, once highly deprived, to now being the most rapidly gentrifying part - and of course a stone's throw (or a short tram ride) west of Manchester City Centre.
On that note Worsley and Eccles South probably deserves a mention but only because the name of the constituency in that the named part is ironically the Conservative part but is fairly small in itself (along with Boothstown/Ellenbrook), so consistently outweighed by massive Labour votes from Little Hulton estate, Walkden (which is mixed), Irlam, Cadishead and the less desirable half of Eccles. Therefore even if there was a 100% turnout 100% for the Conservatives in Worsley/Boothstown/Ellenbrook, it would probably still be a Labour hold, so I wouldn't say as a constituency it's the most disparate because it's always leaned heavily in favour of the Labour areas - and it would take quite some gerrymandering to change that! (having said that if people know which parts of Leigh were the most conservative in 2019 it could be done)
In a way in terms of naming it's the opposite of 'Corby' where the name doesn't accurately recognise the significant areas which are very different from the principal named area. Here, 'Eccles South' is an odd name and Worsley comes first as if it is the main settlement when it is actually Walkden. Without trying to open a can of worms on constituency names in general, just focussing on the point that the idea of the 'Worsley constituency' being safe Labour would be surprising if you told the average person on a Greater Manchester street.
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Post by mattbewilson on Jan 3, 2022 22:58:07 GMT
East and West split is quite common. In Sheffield the life expectancy if you get on a bus in Southey Green that terminates in Totley jumps by 9 years. That's the psephology of industrial pollution and prevailing winds. i was told that areas like Pitsmoor in Sheffield which are now quite deprived and mostly asians living there was once a very wealthy area. People moved out west according to some people because they though cholera was airborne |
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bsjmcr
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Post by bsjmcr on Jan 3, 2022 23:07:47 GMT
That's the psephology of industrial pollution and prevailing winds. i was told that areas like Pitsmoor in Sheffield which are now quite deprived and mostly asians living there was once a very wealthy area. People moved out west according to some people because they though cholera was airborne I've been told the Lenton in Nottingham was also once an affluent area, later diversified with Asian/Afro-Carribean (much of which moved over to the eastern side), Lenton is now nearly all students. There could probably be a whole thread dedicated to 'once affluent areas now full of students'... Manchester Withington, Bristol (West?), Birmingham (Edgbaston?), etc... Nottingham as a whole is a patchwork but with virtually no affluent area except Wollaton and the Park Estate (to the west!) and to a lesser extent Mapperley (to the north-east) which is okay. Nottingham North could be one of the most homogenous areas, all WWC estates, some of the most deprived in the country. Nottingham South therefore would be the relatively 'disparate' one by inclusion of the aforementioned Wollaton, Park and Lenton, but also Radford (rough) and the isolated Clifton estate (nothing like the Bristol Clifton - some say the largest council estate in Europe though Wythenshawe also claims this). Rushcliffe on the other hand would be nearly homogenous in terms of status, though different in character with an urban/suburban core in W.Bridgford then a large rural area. Broxtowe and Gedling (two LAs which should just be part of Nottingham) are near mirror-images of each other either side of the city. |
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Post by bjornhattan on Jan 3, 2022 23:23:19 GMT
Mirfield (previously astutely mentioned earlier on as being a strongly Conservative part of Dewsbury constituency) is to the east of Huddersfield - but the west of Dewsbury, so depending on how you look at it... The Crosland Moor/Lockwood areas directly west of Huddersfield aren't particularly salubrious, you have to go quite some way westwards well into Colne Valley to Slaithwaite/Marsden which are the up-and-coming villages, the future Holmfirths if you like. Indeed Colne Valley constituency is to a much lesser extent a bit of a mirror of Oldham E&S'worth by inclusion of the Crosland Moor/Netherton ward. Salford is to the west of Manchester but one could argue it is a city in itself (so the poorer east applies) but there is also the river/Ship Canal factor i.e. the Quays area, once highly deprived, to now being the most rapidly gentrifying part - and of course a stone's throw (or a short tram ride) west of Manchester City Centre. On that note Worsley and Eccles South probably deserves a mention but only because the name of the constituency in that the named part is ironically the Conservative part but is fairly small in itself (along with Boothstown/Ellenbrook), so consistently outweighed by massive Labour votes from Little Hulton estate, Walkden (which is mixed), Irlam, Cadishead and the less desirable half of Eccles. Therefore even if there was a 100% turnout 100% for the Conservatives in Worsley/Boothstown/Ellenbrook, it would probably still be a Labour hold, so I wouldn't say as a constituency it's the most disparate because it's always leaned heavily in favour of the Labour areas - and it would take quite some gerrymandering to change that! (having said that if people know which parts of Leigh were the most conservative in 2019 it could be done) In a way in terms of naming it's the opposite of 'Corby' where the name doesn't accurately recognise the significant areas which are very different from the principal named area. Here, 'Eccles South' is an odd name and Worsley comes first as if it is the main settlement when it is actually Walkden. Without trying to open a can of worms on constituency names in general, just focussing on the point that the idea of the 'Worsley constituency' being safe Labour would be surprising if you told the average person on a Greater Manchester street. Tynemouth is possibly Tyneside's equivalent - a very pleasant suburb with a substantial Conservative vote (the ward is Labour held, but takes in some of North Shields). There are also similar wards along the coast - Cullercoats which is a former fishing village with a metro station, and St Mary's which is mostly recent owner occupied housing. In the 2000s, the Conservatives won all of the coastal wards every year. However, the constituency has been Labour held since 1997 - and that's because Labour dominate its inland wards. Many of the villages in that part of the seat were once pit villages, while Chirton ward is based on the Meadow Well estate - which isn't quite as bad as it once was, but still retains a great deal of poverty. Labour have also become much stronger in some of the coastal wards - Whitley Bay in particular, where there has been an influx of relatively young professionals. I would imagine that, similar to your example, many in Newcastle would assume Tynemouth was a Conservative seat, going off the name alone. |
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Post by bsjmcr on Jan 3, 2022 23:23:34 GMT
Wirral West is very jarring too, with The Woody in Upton ward in the same seat as Hoylake and West Kirby & the affluent mid-Wirral suburban villages. That sounds like the name of a future constituency...  |
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Khunanup
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Post by Khunanup on Jan 3, 2022 23:58:12 GMT
Wirral West is very jarring too, with The Woody in Upton ward in the same seat as Hoylake and West Kirby & the affluent mid-Wirral suburban villages. That sounds like the name of a future constituency... It's what Wirral South should be called really already... |
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Post by Eastwood on Jan 3, 2022 23:59:16 GMT
For an example close to myself East Renfrewshire - Newton Mearns and Clarkston very different to Barrhead and Neilston. Eastwood can say more i'm sure It’s an interesting question. In many ways yes the Mearns is different from Barrhead but in other ways not so much. Neilston and Newton Mearns share a secondary school at Eastwood High. Neilston is a working class Labour voting village with a combination of Agricultural and Textile industry based history. Barrhead is more of a west coast deprived town with textile, mining and iron working history. In some ways Neilston has more in common with the Mearns than with Barrhead. Voting wise not so much but from an educational/ high expectations perspective Neilston folk have a higher emphasis on achievement than Barrhead. From a religious / cultural perspective the Newton Mearns / Giffnock Jewish diaspora is obviously unique in Scotland in terms of being a significant cultural / political force. The Avenue is one of the few places in Scotland where the greasy spoon cafe gives you Turkey rashers in your fried breakfast. But Giffnock in other ways is not hugely different politically to parts of the Glasgow Southside like Newlands / Shawlands / Battlefield etc. I’m not hugely convinced overall that East Renfrewshire is an especially uniquely divergent constituency from a deprivation perspective but perhaps from a religious perspective it is one of the most diverse constituencies. |
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Post by Eastwood on Jan 4, 2022 0:06:31 GMT
Central Devon. Very good. I was thinking about rural and small town constituencies but had forgotten about that one. Some London suburbs are quite homogenous but I’m surprised by Ilford South. Cranbrook used to be quite prosperous, and parts of central Ilford are quite run down. I have looked at SIMD (the Scottish deprivation stats) from time to time, and Moray seems to have to mostly middling areas. I’d have thought WA&NK would be another one that was pretty homogenous? |
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Post by stb12 on Jan 4, 2022 0:49:10 GMT
Glasgow North East is a pretty similar place across the board. It did have a rise in the Tory vote like pretty much every seat in 2017 as part of the No voting backlash but I doubt that came from any particular area with different demographics
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J.G.Harston
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Post by J.G.Harston on Jan 4, 2022 2:55:38 GMT
I wonder if there are any towns or cities where the prosperous areas are in the east end? My remark about pollution being a major factor in this wasn't totally flippant. It was something I studied as an undergraduate and there is a definite correlation between wind direction in a town or city and the prosperity of various suburbs. The wind blows the dirt from the woking parts eastwards, so the western bits were mostly smoke free. That was something I covered in school geography. I can't remember specifically but it could well have been before 'O' levels. |
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Post by J.G.Harston on Jan 4, 2022 3:09:45 GMT
That's the psephology of industrial pollution and prevailing winds. I was told that areas like Pitsmoor in Sheffield which are now quite deprived and mostly asians living there was once a very wealthy area. People moved out west according to some people because they though cholera was airborne Pitsmoor was Victorian "stockbroker belt" along with Broomhall. Huge townhouses with big gardens with good transport links to get to the office. Both areas went down as public transport links improved (so 'the ordinary people' could travel there) and motor transport to the areas away from public transport along Fulwood Road and the like were developed with similar huge townhouses. My grandparents snapped up a house on Fulwood Road in a bankruptcy sale in the 1960s, moving there from Victorian 'middle-class' terraced housing off Abbeydale Road. If you can find a copy, my brother's dissertation at Sheffield Hallam was on the geo-spacial development of housing. |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Jan 4, 2022 7:42:33 GMT
I wonder if there are any towns or cities where the prosperous areas are in the east end? From a cursory glance, Plymouth, Poole, Bath, Portsmouth, and Bedford all seem to have prosperous easts and poorer wests. In four of those, water appears to play a major factor - both Portsmouth and Plymouth had their dockyards in their western part, Poole has a working harbour in the west of town and the beaches of Sandbanks to the east, while in Bath the Avon flows west and presumably the wealth wanted to be upstream of the various industries around the city centre and Twerton. Bedford is the only exception to this rule - and I don't know enough about the place to see why the west would be poorer than the east there (and why one part of its east, Goldington, completely bucks that trend). Does anyone have any ideas?
Ipswich has its better areas on the East side (also connected to the river I guess), Luton too to a certain extent. Rickmansworth has a quite clear East/West divide with the grot on the West side. The grottier areas of Guildford are also in the West |
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Post by YL on Jan 4, 2022 7:55:16 GMT
That's the psephology of industrial pollution and prevailing winds. i was told that areas like Pitsmoor in Sheffield which are now quite deprived and mostly asians living there was once a very wealthy area. People moved out west according to some people because they though cholera was airborne Sheffield’s industry used to be extremely polluting so it is hardly surprising that people who could afford to moved west. There are also patterns related to altitude: I think the nicer houses in Pitsmoor are generally in the higher parts of the area, and in the west of the city the highest status areas tend to be on south facing slopes. The current boundaries mean the really low deprivation areas are concentrated in Hallam so none of the city’s constituencies come up in this thread, though Heeley, Central and Brightside & Hillsborough all show signs of it. In the case of Heeley the estates built on the southern edge of the city in the slum clearance era also have very high deprivation. |
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Post by John Chanin on Jan 4, 2022 8:29:48 GMT
Droitwich comes to mind in the Midlands as a town where the east is more prosperous
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Post by batman on Jan 4, 2022 9:06:52 GMT
and perhaps, not so far away, Stourbridge too?
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Clark
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Post by Clark on Jan 4, 2022 9:11:34 GMT
The town of Aylesbury has been voted as the worst place to live in England - I imagine this contrasts sharply with some of the very pleasant rural Buckinghamshire villages nearby.
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Post by John Chanin on Jan 4, 2022 9:50:25 GMT
The town of Aylesbury has been voted as the worst place to live in England - I imagine this contrasts sharply with some of the very pleasant rural Buckinghamshire villages nearby. I used to drive regularly through Aylesbury on the way to see my mother, and have to say I wasn’t terribly impressed. I note that this is one of the missing constituencies in the “south east” in the almanac, so perhaps I’ll have a go at it (and Buckingham) when the weather gets better. I was hoping that ricmk would do Milton Keynes, but since he’s not interested I could do that too, as I used to have friends who lived in MK. |
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Post by thirdchill on Jan 4, 2022 10:02:53 GMT
Bolton North East has a good claim to be one of the most disparate constituencies in the north west. Combining wealthy areas (and very Tory) areas such as Bromley Cross and Bradshaw, a more deprived but marginal voting area of Breightmet and the more deprived areas of Halliwell (which is very solidly labour), and which has a very large ethnic population.
The swings have been quite small in Bolton North East between elections due to this polarisation, and the fact that the majority of wards are solidly in favour of one party or another.
Bolton West and Bolton South East are both still reasnably diverse but a lot less so than Bolton North East. Bolton West does not have the same pockets of deprivation that Bolton North East does, and nowhere in Bolton South East as the same level of affluence as Bromley Cross.
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Jan 4, 2022 10:06:04 GMT
The town of Aylesbury has been voted as the worst place to live in England - I imagine this contrasts sharply with some of the very pleasant rural Buckinghamshire villages nearby. By people who live there or people who don't? Aylesbury is a depressing dump but I should think its far from the worst place to live in England and there aren't really extreme levels of deprivation anywhere in the town, though there is certainly a contrast between some of the council estates in the town and the very attractive villages which make up the rest of the seat. |
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