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Post by LDCaerdydd on May 10, 2022 11:40:41 GMT
Ceredigion Preseli regional list vote 2021 Plaid 15,942, Con 8,730, Lab 8,410, Lib Dem 2,908, Green 2,244, Abolish 1,046, UKIP 570, Reform UK 536, Freedom Alliance 260, Christian Party 234, Gwlad 172, Propel 144, Communist 120, TUSC 52 D'hondt Allocations: Plaid wins the first seat, Con wins the second seat, Lab wins the third seat And seats 4, 5, 6? Or are you suggesting that each party gets two each, one male, one female? |
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Post by LDCaerdydd on May 10, 2022 11:41:35 GMT
The statutory gender quotas and zipping are the worst aspect. Why should the law interfere in a party's right to select whichever candidates it wants and let the voters decide? What if the Women's Equality party wants to stand a slate? They're forced to put up 50% men? Or one of those pesky independent candidates? Or dare I say it Jamie Wallis? |
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Harry Hayfield
Green
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Post by Harry Hayfield on May 10, 2022 12:12:29 GMT
Ceredigion Preseli regional list vote 2021 Plaid 15,942, Con 8,730, Lab 8,410, Lib Dem 2,908, Green 2,244, Abolish 1,046, UKIP 570, Reform UK 536, Freedom Alliance 260, Christian Party 234, Gwlad 172, Propel 144, Communist 120, TUSC 52 D'hondt Allocations: Plaid wins the first seat, Con wins the second seat, Lab wins the third seat And seats 4, 5, 6? Or are you suggesting that each party gets two each, one male, one female? There is no seat 4,5,6. Each constituency (32) elects three members (32 x 3 = 96) As to the gender balance issue (which I assume is 24 men, 24 women, 24 trans and 24 non binary) that is a question for the Welsh Government. |
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Post by johnloony on May 10, 2022 12:14:38 GMT
Ceredigion Preseli regional list vote 2021 Plaid 15,942, Con 8,730, Lab 8,410, Lib Dem 2,908, Green 2,244, Abolish 1,046, UKIP 570, Reform UK 536, Freedom Alliance 260, Christian Party 234, Gwlad 172, Propel 144, Communist 120, TUSC 52 D'hondt Allocations: Plaid wins the first seat, Con wins the second seat, Lab wins the third seat And seats 4, 5, 6? Or are you suggesting that each party gets two each, one male, one female? That would be PC 3 Con 2 Lab 1. |
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Post by johnloony on May 10, 2022 12:19:14 GMT
And seats 4, 5, 6? Or are you suggesting that each party gets two each, one male, one female? There is no seat 4,5,6. Each constituency (32) elects three members (32 x 3 = 96) As to the gender balance issue (which I assume is 24 men, 24 women, 24 trans and 24 non binary) that is a question for the Welsh Government. no it doesn’t. Ceredigion would be paired with another parliamentary constituency to make a 6-member Senedd constituency. |
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Post by Wisconsin on May 10, 2022 12:20:55 GMT
And seats 4, 5, 6? Or are you suggesting that each party gets two each, one male, one female? There is no seat 4,5,6. Each constituency (32) elects three members (32 x 3 = 96) As to the gender balance issue (which I assume is 24 men, 24 women, 24 trans and 24 non binary) that is a question for the Welsh Government. Have you missed the tweets in LDCaerdydd’s post above? Seats are to be paired: 16 x 6. |
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Post by Wisconsin on May 10, 2022 12:25:36 GMT
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Post by greenchristian on May 10, 2022 12:28:38 GMT
The statutory gender quotas and zipping are the worst aspect. Why should the law interfere in a party's right to select whichever candidates it wants and let the voters decide? What if the Women's Equality party wants to stand a slate? They're forced to put up 50% men? Surely putting up 50% women and 50% women is equality... |
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Harry Hayfield
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Post by Harry Hayfield on May 10, 2022 12:30:39 GMT
NOW I GET IT!
I have just read Adam Price's statement on Twitter which explains it much better than the BBC report did.
The 32 constituencies created by the Boundary Commission for Westminster will be paired into 16 constituencies (each constituency electing 6 members by d'Hondt PR) the choice of which will be determined by the Welsh Local Government Boundary Commission before the end of 2024 to allow the parties to organise their campaigns.
Now that I understand it, the question is "What constituency would Ceredigion, Preseli be paired with?" to which I think the obvious answer has to be Mid and South Pembrokeshire to create a Ceredigion and Pembrokeshire constituency and then re do the calculations based on that.
Even so, still not impressed that STV has been unceremoniously dumped and a method of election chosen that will make it almost impossible for any one bar Labour, Plaid and the Conservatives to get a decent number of seats.
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Post by Wisconsin on May 10, 2022 12:41:14 GMT
The statutory gender quotas and zipping are the worst aspect. Why should the law interfere in a party's right to select whichever candidates it wants and let the voters decide? What if the Women's Equality party wants to stand a slate? They're forced to put up 50% men? I’m not convinced the right to select candidates on a discriminatory basis is a right that exists or should be respected by law. |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on May 10, 2022 12:50:08 GMT
The statutory gender quotas and zipping are the worst aspect. Why should the law interfere in a party's right to select whichever candidates it wants and let the voters decide? What if the Women's Equality party wants to stand a slate? They're forced to put up 50% men? I’m not convinced the right to select candidates on a discriminatory basis is a right that exists or should be respected by law. Why do you assume that an uneven number of male and female candidates would be a result of discrimination? When I was running UKIP in St Albans I think I had at most 3 or 4 female activicists who were willing to stand as candidates and three or four times as many men. If a similar rule as this had applied I would have had to contest only half the seats I did simply because I could not find sufficient candidates. I can imagine many smaller parties would have that kind of issue - perhaps that is the intention? And what the law here is doing is actually imposing an obligation to select candidates on a 'discriminatory' basis. |
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Post by John Chanin on May 10, 2022 13:22:45 GMT
Much as I am in favour of roughly equal female representation, I have to agree that writing this into law is ridiculous. You can’t really tell parties who to stand for them in a democracy.
As an STV hater but supporter of PR, 6 member seats elected by d’hondt I entirely approve of.
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Post by MeirionGwril on May 10, 2022 14:40:50 GMT
A tweet (not by me) on how to pair the seats: "Areas should be paired by pulling numbers out of a hat, that'll shake things up a bit"  |
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ricmk
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Post by ricmk on May 10, 2022 14:49:35 GMT
The mathematician in me wonders how many permutations there will be for pairing 32 constituencies into 16 adjacent pairs. Presumably only one choice with Anglesey. Depending on the shape of the map that may well force adjacent pairs. If there is a bottleneck in Mid-Wales then very few again. Looking at the draft map there are only a handful of options for N Wales, but there will be a large number in the south.
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Post by Penddu on May 10, 2022 14:53:32 GMT
You can pair Ynys Mon with either Gwynedd or Conwy and then work around from there - but pretty much writes itself once that decision is made
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Post by Penddu on May 10, 2022 14:58:37 GMT
Much as I am in favour of roughly equal female representation, I have to agree that writing this into law is ridiculous. You can’t really tell parties who to stand for them in a democracy. As an STV hater but supporter of PR, 6 member seats elected by d’hondt I entirely approve of. I agree with 16×6 d'hondt based on pairing of Westminster's 32 seats - but I would probably go for 16x5 to give 80 seats with an option to go to 96 seats later. But dont agree with gender quotas at all. |
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Post by Penddu on May 10, 2022 15:06:25 GMT
Not sure why the split of 32 constituencies will be made by Boundary Commission for Wales - but the pairing to 16 will be made by Local Democracy and Government Commision for Wales ?...?
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Post by Pete Whitehead on May 10, 2022 15:15:00 GMT
It seems unavoidable that Powys will be split between two different seats in this scenario. I can see the sense of pairing Westminster constituencies but it will make for one or two odd bedfellows. Why not just come up with 16 areas of roughly equal size (but you'd have to got for either 3 or 4 in North Wales to enable both Powys and Carmarthenshire to remain intact)
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Post by timrollpickering on May 10, 2022 15:31:34 GMT
Not sure why the split of 32 constituencies will be made by Boundary Commission for Wales - but the pairing to 16 will be made by Local Democracy and Government Commision for Wales ?...? At a guess the former is a Westminster thing and the latter a Cardiff Bay one? |
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Post by No Offence Alan on May 10, 2022 15:45:34 GMT
It seems unavoidable that Powys will be split between two different seats in this scenario. I can see the sense of pairing Westminster constituencies but it will make for one or two odd bedfellows. Why not just come up with 16 areas of roughly equal size (but you'd have to got for either 3 or 4 in North Wales to enable both Powys and Carmarthenshire to remain intact) Why not? Because it has to be done well before 2026. |
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