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Post by lancastrian on May 28, 2013 22:23:21 GMT
Our Green contributors not appearing to have rushed to answer yes to this poll, what are their opinions on the petitions launched by the Merton Green Party?
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Post by froome on May 29, 2013 5:35:29 GMT
Our Green contributors not appearing to have rushed to answer yes to this poll, what are their opinions on the petitions launched by the Merton Green Party? ? The poll was in March, and I expect most Greens did vote yes then - see various comments made by Green contributors at the time. I wasn't aware of the Merton petition, so thanks for alerting me to it. If I lived there I would support it. My preference is the position the Scottish Greens take, for defectors to sit as Independents until the next election, which tonyotim outlines early in the thread. |
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Post by lancastrian on May 29, 2013 11:35:56 GMT
My interpretation of the posts was that they do support the Scottish Green position but think the question of the by election should be for the individual representative.
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Tony Otim
Green
Suffering from Brexistential Despair
Posts: 11,905
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Post by Tony Otim on May 29, 2013 12:00:20 GMT
My interpretation of the posts was that they do support the Scottish Green position but think the question of the by election should be for the individual representative. That's a fairly accurate summary. My personal opinion is that the Merton Green Party are using ther situation to try and gain political advantage in the same way that all parties have at times. I'm sure we could find cases of local parties of all colours calling for an opponent to resign after a defection. However, I would remain firmly opposed to a policy forcing defectors to resign for reasons others have outlined above. |
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Post by anthony on Jun 18, 2013 11:00:13 GMT
My personal opinion is that the Merton Green Party are using ther situation to try and gain political advantage in the same way that all parties have at times. I'm sure we could find cases of local parties of all colours calling for an opponent to resign after a defection. However, I would remain firmly opposed to a policy forcing defectors to resign for reasons others have outlined above. The irony being that the only ever Green Party councillor on Merton council was gained through a defection in 2002 . . . I think the recently defunct (politically at least) Merton Green Party will fail to gain any advantage on this. I don't think enough residents care enough, and a couple of stalls outside a library aren't going to garner enough signatures in the right places to force by-elections under UKIP rules. And even if they did, it would be fairly likely that the Green Party candidate would do poorly, rather like at the 2012 by-election in Wimbledon Park. Edit: thanks Martin for the date of the Lab-to-Green defection. |
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Post by martinwhelton on Jun 19, 2013 7:50:14 GMT
I think the call for the by-elections must have beeen one of the only things that the Merton Green Party has called for in the last four years. I also don't seem to recall them asking for Paul Barasi to resign when he defected just before the 2002 election from Labour to Green (though it was too near the election for a by-election to take place).
Frankly, I would've have thought other issues would've been of more concern to the Greens then calling for a by-election in two wards where they stand next to no chance of winning. The whole petition isssue is of very little political advantage to them(and many of the public don't care)
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Post by anthony on Jun 19, 2013 13:03:10 GMT
I think the call for the by-elections must have beeen one of the only things that the Merton Green Party has called for in the last four years. I'd say even longer than that. There's been very little activity since 2006. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2015 18:54:17 GMT
Just thought I'd bump this thread because I'm tired of seeing that spam one.
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Post by johnloony on May 20, 2024 18:22:14 GMT
Following on from a discussion in another thread, I was going to set up a poll about whether MPs or councillors should face a by-election if they defect from one party to another.
But this poll is still open, so *bump*
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Post by johnloony on May 20, 2024 18:24:12 GMT
No no no no no! Never in any circumstances. There is no truth in this "most people vote for the party not the candidate" nonsense. All voters, in all elections, and in all circumstances, vote for specifically named individual persons, and all elected representatives have a specific individual mandate to serve for a full term on that basis. It may be that some, or many, voters, make their decision about for whom they wish to vote primarily on the basis of the party of which the candidate(s) is/are (a) member(s), but that is a subjective matter for the individual voter. The strength or intensity of that sentiment in the mind of the voter(s) is irrelevant to the validity of the mandate of the elected representative(s). bump |
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Post by uthacalthing on May 21, 2024 15:05:40 GMT
Previously I may have argued against on the grounds that were a member to fall out with his party, the party would then have total power over him to force him to tow the line on threat of expulsion and a forced by-election.
This is still true.
However, a near opposite is also true. Were a member to fall out with his party, the party may wish to expel him but feel unable to do so as this would force a by-election which they wished to avoid.
Neither is a good state of affairs.
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Post by johnloony on May 21, 2024 15:35:07 GMT
Previously I may have argued against on the grounds that were a member to fall out with his party, the party would then have total power over him to force him to tow the line on threat of expulsion and a forced by-election. This is still true. However, a near opposite is also true. Were a member to fall out with his party, the party may wish to expel him but feel unable to do so as this would force a by-election which they wished to avoid. Neither is a good state of affairs. Even the people, who think that defecting politicians should face a by-election under their new party label, mostly so not think that the same should apply to those who are expelled from their party against their wishes - only to those who voluntarily jump from one party to another. |
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Post by noorderling on May 21, 2024 18:44:09 GMT
Previously I may have argued against on the grounds that were a member to fall out with his party, the party would then have total power over him to force him to tow the line on threat of expulsion and a forced by-election. This is still true. However, a near opposite is also true. Were a member to fall out with his party, the party may wish to expel him but feel unable to do so as this would force a by-election which they wished to avoid. Neither is a good state of affairs. Even the people, who think that defecting politicians should face a by-election under their new party label, mostly so not think that the same should apply to those who are expelled from their party against their wishes - only to those who voluntarily jump from one party to another. So the party will just bully the person they want to get rid of, until they leave the party and a by-election can be forced. |
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Post by johnloony on May 21, 2024 22:06:52 GMT
Even the people, who think that defecting politicians should face a by-election under their new party label, mostly so not think that the same should apply to those who are expelled from their party against their wishes - only to those who voluntarily jump from one party to another. So the party will just bully the person they want to get rid of, until they leave the party and a by-election can be forced. No again, because the proposal to force defectors to face a by-election would only apply to those who defect from one party to another, not those who resign the whip and become independent. |
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Post by doktorb🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️ on May 21, 2024 22:15:13 GMT
This could be where Recall comes in.
Under specific circumstances, finely drafted, an MP faces a petition if they defect.
Councillors often go party-ind-party and it's difficult, democratically, to capture those moves into a legally tight byelection regime.
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