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Post by carlton43 on Aug 13, 2021 7:48:59 GMT
You chaps are not up to effective sarcasm are you?
A Hoover for 'suction'? I don't think so! Do you?
And, Like we are in anyway interested in the difference or care at all !!
I don't think I've ever seen the Conservative ethos distilled so well in to a single sentence before.
I am happy to accept praise from any source, be it for concision, quality of English or quality of political analysis.
Thank you.
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Post by raskolnikov on Aug 13, 2021 8:26:37 GMT
Instead of making infantile comments regarding the taliban in Tower hamlets perhaps Charlton 69 could tell us what he thinks about the current situation in Afghanistan. Is the tory government right in pulling out our troops? This is a disaster in the making. What on earth are they thinking?
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Post by Daft H'a'porth A'peth A'pith on Aug 13, 2021 8:43:15 GMT
Instead of making infantile comments regarding the taliban in Tower hamlets perhaps Charlton 69 could tell us what he thinks about the current situation in Afghanistan. Is the tory government right in pulling out our troops? This is a disaster in the making. What on earth are they thinking? As if we had a real say in it, once the American government decided to leave the cards were delt. You want to sacrifice UK soldiers for nothing? Regarding the Taliban carlton43 was just responding to an infantile poster further up the thread.
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Post by raskolnikov on Aug 13, 2021 8:50:00 GMT
Looks to me that we have already made the call that our troops have lost lives for nothing. We had some kind of stability there. When was the last time we heard of our soldiers being killed over there? It is now going to be a breeding ground for terrorists. The tories will regret this disgraceful decision to pull out.
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Post by phil156 on Aug 13, 2021 8:52:47 GMT
Hoping that the Scottish results come through so we can get back to what Vote UK Forum is all about
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Post by Merseymike on Aug 13, 2021 8:56:39 GMT
Looks to me that we have already made the call that our troops have lost lives for nothing. We had some kind of stability there. When was the last time we heard of our soldiers being killed over there? It is now going to be a breeding ground for terrorists. The tories will regret this disgraceful decision to pull out. You're suggesting that we could replace the American troops? Seriously? Stability gained by placing a permanent presence there is simply not something the Americans are willing to do and that's been clear enough hence the training of the Afghan forces. I don't think it would make any difference how much training they had, frankly. They appear to have literally run away in many cases. Given that American decision - if we stayed there we would need to replace the American troops in terms of numbers. You think that is even a remote possibility?
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Post by samdwebber on Aug 13, 2021 8:58:20 GMT
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timmullen1
Labour
Closing account as BossMan declines to respond to messages seeking support.
Posts: 11,823
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Post by timmullen1 on Aug 13, 2021 8:59:10 GMT
Looks to me that we have already made the call that our troops have lost lives for nothing. We had some kind of stability there. When was the last time we heard of our soldiers being killed over there? It is now going to be a breeding ground for terrorists. The tories will regret this disgraceful decision to pull out. Daft H'a'porth A'peth A'pith nails it in the first sentence; loathe as I am to defend this shit show that calls itself a government, they had absolutely no choice once Biden disgracefully chose to pull the rug out to cater to the moronic AOC/Sanders wing of his Party. We know that our Secretary of State for Defence has been trying to persuade NATO colleagues to postpone their withdrawal, but without American support few (correctly so) were willing to embark on a suicide mission. I suspect it won’t be the withdrawal the Conservatives regret but having to dutifully follow the Americans back in 12 months and start all over again. Personally when the White House and Pentagon do ask for our help in clearing up their latest mess I’d support an answer concise enough to satisfy carlton43, no.
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Post by Merseymike on Aug 13, 2021 9:04:59 GMT
The rug would have been pulled under Trump too. Biden acted because that's clearly what America wants - nothing at all to do with the Democratic left. Just sums up how appalling the Labour right are in their fawning adoration of the neocons. Thank goodness you will never be in power again. The days of the neo-cons are over. The Americans do not want to see any more young Americans brought back in body bags unless they can see a very clear direct benefit to America. Essentially America is a isolationist country: they will happily intervene in Central and South America because they see that as their sphere of influence. They use Israel as a proxy in the Middle East,but further intervention there is unlikely. They don't view staying in Afghanistan as providing America with direct benefit.
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J.G.Harston
Lib Dem
Leave-voting Brexit-supporting Liberal Democrat
Posts: 13,591
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Post by J.G.Harston on Aug 13, 2021 9:15:28 GMT
Looks to me that we have already made the call that our troops have lost lives for nothing. We had some kind of stability there. When was the last time we heard of our soldiers being killed over there? It is now going to be a breeding ground for terrorists. The tories will regret this disgraceful decision to pull out. Daft H'a'porth A'peth A'pith nails it in the first sentence; loathe as I am to defend this shit show that calls itself a government, they had absolutely no choice once Biden disgracefully chose to pull the rug out to cater to the moronic AOC/Sanders wing of his Party. We know that our Secretary of State for Defence has been trying to persuade NATO colleagues to postpone their withdrawal, but without American support few (correctly so) were willing to embark on a suicide mission. I suspect it won’t be the withdrawal the Conservatives regret but having to dutifully follow the Americans back in 12 months and start all over again. Personally when the White House and Pentagon do ask for our help in clearing up their latest mess I’d support an answer concise enough to satisfy carlton43 , no. "We followed you into Korea, we're not following you into Vietnam".
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Post by andrew111 on Aug 13, 2021 9:16:52 GMT
The rug would have been pulled under Trump too. The days of the neo-cons are over. The Americans do not want to see any more young Americans brought back in body bags unless they can see a very clear direct benefit to America. Essentially America is a isolationist country: they will happily intervene in Central and South America because they see that as their sphere of influence. They use Israel as a proxy in the Middle East,but further intervention there is unlikely. They don't view staying in Afghanistan as providing America with direct benefit. No oil to speak of in Afghanistan. That is key. Of course they got involved funding ultra-Islamic groups to defeat the Russians, and have reaped what they sowed. (as have we).
Regarding the Taliban, they were kept out of the cities by vastly superior armaments, but could only have been defeated by an enemy as ruthless as them. A democratic government imposed from outside was never going to be able to resist them I am afraid, but we and the Americans liberalised and westernised a generation of middle class Afghans who are now abandoned to the wolves. That is the tragedy and the moral vacuum.
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Post by finsobruce on Aug 13, 2021 9:23:48 GMT
Instead of making infantile comments regarding the taliban in Tower hamlets perhaps Charlton 69 could tell us what he thinks about the current situation in Afghanistan. Is the tory government right in pulling out our troops? This is a disaster in the making. What on earth are they thinking? Who is Charlton 69?
Is he a Sham?
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Post by Merseymike on Aug 13, 2021 9:26:06 GMT
The rug would have been pulled under Trump too. The days of the neo-cons are over. The Americans do not want to see any more young Americans brought back in body bags unless they can see a very clear direct benefit to America. Essentially America is a isolationist country: they will happily intervene in Central and South America because they see that as their sphere of influence. They use Israel as a proxy in the Middle East,but further intervention there is unlikely. They don't view staying in Afghanistan as providing America with direct benefit. No oil to speak of in Afghanistan. That is key. Of course they got involved funding ultra-Islamic groups to defeat the Russians, and have reaped what they sowed. (as have we). Regarding the Taliban, they were kept out of the cities by vastly superior armaments, but could only have been defeated by an enemy as ruthless as them. A democratic government imposed from outside was never going to be able to resist them I am afraid, but we and the Americans liberalised and westernised a generation of middle class Afghans who are now abandoned to the wolves. That is the tragedy and the moral vacuum.
In other words, you can't impose liberal democracy and the best peoplevto keep the Taliban at bay were the regional warlords
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Post by andrew111 on Aug 13, 2021 9:26:20 GMT
I don't think I've ever seen the Conservative ethos distilled so well in to a single sentence before.
I am happy to accept praise from any source, be it for concision, quality of English or quality of political analysis.
Thank you.
It is always good in life to have a low happiness threshold Carlton
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Post by andrew111 on Aug 13, 2021 9:33:21 GMT
No oil to speak of in Afghanistan. That is key. Of course they got involved funding ultra-Islamic groups to defeat the Russians, and have reaped what they sowed. (as have we). Regarding the Taliban, they were kept out of the cities by vastly superior armaments, but could only have been defeated by an enemy as ruthless as them. A democratic government imposed from outside was never going to be able to resist them I am afraid, but we and the Americans liberalised and westernised a generation of middle class Afghans who are now abandoned to the wolves. That is the tragedy and the moral vacuum.
In other words, you can't impose liberal democracy and the best peoplevto keep the Taliban at bay were the regional warlords Yes, like Putin in Chechnya. Flatten the main city and then appoint a ruthless local warlord to rebuild it and sort out what remained of the opposition (with also a big investment in the rebuilding to show that is much better than being flattened). Quite a peaceful place now from what I can see.
However you do have to persuade the regional warlords not to fight each other, which has generally been the problem in Afghanistan (which is also a much more populous country than Chechnya). We shall see if the Putin way works in Syria I guess.
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Post by froome on Aug 13, 2021 9:36:33 GMT
Can people please use the relevant thread in International Politics for this discussion rather than having it here.
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Post by andrew111 on Aug 13, 2021 9:36:48 GMT
Instead of making infantile comments regarding the taliban in Tower hamlets perhaps Charlton 69 could tell us what he thinks about the current situation in Afghanistan. Is the tory government right in pulling out our troops? This is a disaster in the making. What on earth are they thinking? Who is Charlton 69?
Is he a Sham?
Or maybe a Sam?
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Post by ideal4radio on Aug 13, 2021 9:36:55 GMT
Instead of making infantile comments regarding the taliban in Tower hamlets perhaps Charlton 69 could tell us what he thinks about the current situation in Afghanistan. Is the tory government right in pulling out our troops? This is a disaster in the making. What on earth are they thinking? Who is Charlton 69?
Is he a Sham?
He's just a Hersham boy, trying to unite the kids, I think ?
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Post by andrew111 on Aug 13, 2021 9:37:53 GMT
Can people please use the relevant thread in International Politics for this discussion rather than having it here. Discussion happens where people are watching... I am sure you can cope if you try
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Aug 13, 2021 9:38:16 GMT
I think thats enough questions and answers
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