Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2021 11:37:35 GMT
I've been writing a guide on how to get he BCE to listen to what you say at consultations, aimed at people who are interested enough to respond but not engaged or active enough to necessarily know how. I will post it here for appraisal in a bit, but in the meantime any advice/guidance on what to include?
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Post by islington on Jun 6, 2021 11:59:50 GMT
I've been writing a guide on how to get he BCE to listen to what you say at consultations, aimed at people who are interested enough to respond but not engaged or active enough to necessarily know how. I will post it here for appraisal in a bit, but in the meantime any advice/guidance on what to include? This needs a fuller reply than I have time for at the moment but I looked at a lot of public responses to the 2018 review and I'd suggest to start off with -
- Read the rules. It was amazing the number of submissions that the BCE couldn't have acted on, even if it wanted to, because they didn't comply with the statutory rules.
- Even if you are motivated by political considerations, on no account say so. Dress it all up in terms of local communities and so forth.
- Think through the knock-on effects on other seats of whatever you are proposing.
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Post by John Chanin on Jun 6, 2021 12:43:25 GMT
Directly address the criteria in your response. If you want to recommend an orphan ward for example explain why in terms of minimum change or community links.
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sirbenjamin
IFP
True fame is reading your name written in graffiti, but without the words 'is a wanker' after it.
Posts: 4,979 
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Post by sirbenjamin on Jun 6, 2021 19:17:42 GMT
Don't go making local recommendations in isolation without considering the wider context - and ideally including these in your counter-proposal.
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Jun 6, 2021 19:47:07 GMT
Explain precisely why you think a given seat that has been proposed is bad, and give evidence of your position - if enough people agree you don't necessarily need to produce a full counter-proposal yourself, but it does help to provide your reasoning.
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Harry Hayfield
Green
Cavalier Gentleman (as in 17th century Cavalier)
Posts: 2,922
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Post by Harry Hayfield on Jun 6, 2021 19:55:40 GMT
I would appreciate a guide for Wales (just in case there are any differences between the nations) but would like to ask the following?
"If I disagree with the naming of a constituency, is that an argument the Commission will accept or reject?"
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Post by minionofmidas on Jun 6, 2021 20:44:03 GMT
I would appreciate a guide for Wales (just in case there are any differences between the nations) but would like to ask the following? "If I disagree with the naming of a constituency, is that an argument the Commission will accept or reject?" If you agree with the constituency's design but think the name is crap, it's worth mentioning. They listen to that sometimes. But disliking the name is not a reason to reject the constituency's makeup.
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Post by Wisconsin on Jun 6, 2021 21:28:20 GMT
Include plenty of hyperlinks and screenshots from a wide variety of sources to evidence any points you make about local communities or lack thereof. Be imaginative.
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cj
Socialist
These fragments I have shored against my ruins
Posts: 3,285
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Post by cj on Jun 6, 2021 21:44:41 GMT
If you are going to make representations in person and have a choice of slots available go for after lunch
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Post by greenhert on Jun 6, 2021 22:23:05 GMT
If suggesting a different name for a constituency, make sure it can be reasonably justified (e.g. failing to include a town which contributes a significant portion of the constituency's electorate, name refers to a no longer extant local government entity).
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J.G.Harston
Lib Dem
Leave-voting Brexit-supporting Liberal Democrat
Posts: 14,840
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Post by J.G.Harston on Jun 6, 2021 22:38:54 GMT
If you are going to make representations in person and have a choice of slots available go for after lunch That abso gives you the ability to comment on earlier representations and reference any good ideas in your own submission and/or explain how any objections could be addressed. Eg: "Many people have stated they want X and Y in the same area, this could be done by swapping Q and W". |
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J.G.Harston
Lib Dem
Leave-voting Brexit-supporting Liberal Democrat
Posts: 14,840
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Post by J.G.Harston on Jun 6, 2021 22:43:46 GMT
If suggesting a different name for a constituency, make sure it can be reasonably justified (e.g. failing to include a town which contributes a significant portion of the constituency's electorate, name refers to a no longer extant local government entity). "B & A" has always historically been "A & B" |
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cj
Socialist
These fragments I have shored against my ruins
Posts: 3,285
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Post by cj on Jun 6, 2021 23:44:57 GMT
If you are going to make representations in person and have a choice of slots available go for after lunch That abso gives you the ability to comment on earlier representations and reference any good ideas in your own submission and/or explain how any objections could be addressed. Eg: "Many people have stated they want X and Y in the same area, this could be done by swapping Q and W". True, but I was referring rather more cynically to that study that indicated judges were more inclined to be lenient when not hangry, obviously taking a broader view of one who judges and not convinced of the evidence indicating leniency first thing being that the hearings are peripatetic and well traffic... |
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Post by michael2019 on Jun 7, 2021 0:09:45 GMT
That abso gives you the ability to comment on earlier representations and reference any good ideas in your own submission and/or explain how any objections could be addressed. Eg: "Many people have stated they want X and Y in the same area, this could be done by swapping Q and W". True, but I was referring rather more cynically to that study that indicated judges were more inclined to be lenient when not hangry, obviously taking a broader view of one who judges and not convinced of the evidence indicating leniency first thing being that the hearings are peripatetic and well traffic... Allegedly more people get parole if their hearing if after lunch! Of course it should all be done by AI which is not subject to these inconsistencies..... |
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Post by michael2019 on Jun 7, 2021 0:19:16 GMT
I've been writing a guide on how to get he BCE to listen to what you say at consultations, aimed at people who are interested enough to respond but not engaged or active enough to necessarily know how. I will post it here for appraisal in a bit, but in the meantime any advice/guidance on what to include? It's obvious (but then the obvious isn't necessarily obvious!) to stress that your proposals need to fit with guidelines (as much as possible) and emphasise in your submission how it fits and is a better fit than the BCE's - they don't particularly care that Little Snodgrass has always been part of Greater Snodgrass constituency (its a MRLP/Count Binface marginal by the way) and definitely won't get a look-in if it's not within the quota limits. The point that has been made tht you need to look at the knock on effects for the rest of the county/region is also a very good one as people may just be concerned about their area - whereas the BCE has to be concerned about making a jigsaw and they can't have any non-quota bits left over! |
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Post by greenchristian on Jun 7, 2021 8:56:56 GMT
True, but I was referring rather more cynically to that study that indicated judges were more inclined to be lenient when not hangry, obviously taking a broader view of one who judges and not convinced of the evidence indicating leniency first thing being that the hearings are peripatetic and well traffic... Allegedly more people get parole if their hearing if after lunch! Of course it should all be done by AI which is not subject to these inconsistencies..... AI is subject to an entirely different set of inconsistencies and biases, though. |
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J.G.Harston
Lib Dem
Leave-voting Brexit-supporting Liberal Democrat
Posts: 14,840
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Post by J.G.Harston on Jun 7, 2021 10:15:36 GMT
Allegedly more people get parole if their hearing if after lunch! Of course it should all be done by AI which is not subject to these inconsistencies..... AI is subject to an entirely different set of inconsistencies and biases, though. If you train AI on the real world, it will annoyingly implement the inconsistancies and biases of the real world. |
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Jun 7, 2021 10:43:12 GMT
Allegedly more people get parole if their hearing if after lunch! Of course it should all be done by AI which is not subject to these inconsistencies..... AI is subject to an entirely different set of inconsistencies and biases, though. And indeed many of the worst decisions of parole boards are made on a 'computer says no' basis. |
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ilerda
Conservative
Posts: 1,112
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Post by ilerda on Jun 7, 2021 12:58:26 GMT
At some point in some region the BCE will use an argument to justify what they have proposed that goes completely against the argument they use for not doing it/doing something else elsewhere.
If you can find the example of the justification you want to you use being used by the BCE then just refer them to that.
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Jun 7, 2021 13:37:18 GMT
Read the submission properly and make sure you understand the unspoken implication. If they're doing something because the grouping they've chosen imposes tight choices, you're probably going to need to convince them the grouping is wrong. You don't need to propose a complete alternative, but you need to work out how far out the waves go from your changes and that's the same area your counter-proposal needs to address.
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