Tony Otim
Green
Suffering from Brexistential Despair
Posts: 11,901
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Post by Tony Otim on May 27, 2021 19:50:46 GMT
And we're back with 2 contests in Waltham Forest:
WALTHAM FOREST LBC; Grove Green (Labour Died)
Candidates:
ANGUS, Arran Paul (Liberal Democrat)
DAWES, Mark Stephen (Green)
KHAN, Shahamima (Conservative)
PARSLOW, Kevin Graham (TUSC)
RASOOL, Uzma (Labour)
2018: Lab 2052, 2047, 1997; LD 897, 725, 623; Grn 456, 416; Con 247, 216, 200; TUSC 128
2014: Lab 1858, 1751, 1686; LD 1009, 865, 856; Grn 507, 485; Con 345, 335, 335; TUSC 160, 86
2010: Lab 2342, 2271, 2178; LD 1681, 1639, 1563; Con 608, 599, 594; Grn 429, 383
2006: Lab 1517, 1430, 1356; LD 1286, 1173, 1171; Grn 480; Con 270, 265, 235
2002: Lab 1169, 1081, 949; LD 1103, 1052, 1048; Grn 265, 218, 167; Con 235, 226, 191; Soc All 163
Arran Angus was the top-placed Lib Dem in 2018.
WALTHAM FOREST LBC; Lea Bridge
Candidates:
IMRE, Sazimet (Conservative)
McCARTHY, Naomi (Liberal Democrat)
WARRINGTON, Anne RoseMary (Green)
WEISS, Claire Elizabeth (Independent)
WHILBY, Jennifer (Labour)
2018: Lab 2313, 2131, 2036; Grn 660; Con 408, 262, 222; LD 252, 240, 175; TUSC 214; Duma Polska 97
2014: Lab 2259, 2020, 1871; Grn 619; LD 429, 375, 233; Con 379, 370, 289; TUSC 276
2010: Lab 2891, 2850, 2730; LD 1810, 1435, 618; Grn 711; Con 661; Ind 215
2006: Lab 1375, 1327, 1240; LD 517, 509, 471; Con 451, 360, 320; Grn 429
2002: Lab 1207, 1126, 1110; LD 536, 427, 356; Con463, 445, 436; Soc All 120
Current Council: Lab 44; Con 14; 2 vacancies
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Post by andykernow on Jun 2, 2021 10:30:43 GMT
Hmm thinking these may be potentially Labour Holds ? :-)
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Post by John Chanin on Jun 2, 2021 13:21:56 GMT
Grove Green was where I lived for 15 years. It is full of 2 storey terraces divided into flats, and has an extremely high level of private renting, as well as large numbers of EU immigrants. It was a bit surprising when the Liberal Democrats at their peak managed to get a seat in 2002. The defeated Labour candidate was someone I had worked with (but hadn’t realized was a Labour member). Unfortunately his name began with a W. I also remember this election because it is the only one I have ever not voted at, because I was in the process of moving to Birmingham.
In 1998 or 1994 (I can’t remember which now), the Liberals were caught going down 1 street saying they were in favour of a traffic management system, and the neighbouring street saying they were against it. They then retreated to saying “more consultation” was necessary, although there had already been 3 rounds. And they produced their usual vote for local candidates, although all 3 of their candidates were from outside the ward, and all the Labour candidates lived there. It’s no wonder some of us are so hostile to local Liberal shenanigans.
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Jun 2, 2021 13:36:36 GMT
Grove Green was where I lived for 15 years. It is full of 2 storey terraces divided into flats, and has an extremely high level of private renting, as well as large numbers of EU immigrants. It was a bit surprising when the Liberal Democrats at their peak managed to get a seat in 2002. The defeated Labour candidate was someone I had worked with (but hadn’t realized was a Labour member). Unfortunately his name began with a W. I also remember this election because it is the only one I have ever not voted at, because I was in the process of moving to Birmingham. In 1998 or 1994 (I can’t remember which now), the Liberals were caught going down 1 street saying they were in favour of a traffic management system, and the neighbouring street saying they were against it. They then retreated to saying “more consultation” was necessary, although there had already been 3 rounds. And they produced their usual vote for local candidates, although all 3 of their candidates were from outside the ward, and all the Labour candidates lived there. It’s no wonder some of us are so hostile to local Liberal shenanigans. *cough* Miranda Grell *cough* |
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Post by John Chanin on Jun 2, 2021 13:51:11 GMT
Grove Green was where I lived for 15 years. It is full of 2 storey terraces divided into flats, and has an extremely high level of private renting, as well as large numbers of EU immigrants. It was a bit surprising when the Liberal Democrats at their peak managed to get a seat in 2002. The defeated Labour candidate was someone I had worked with (but hadn’t realized was a Labour member). Unfortunately his name began with a W. I also remember this election because it is the only one I have ever not voted at, because I was in the process of moving to Birmingham. In 1998 or 1994 (I can’t remember which now), the Liberals were caught going down 1 street saying they were in favour of a traffic management system, and the neighbouring street saying they were against it. They then retreated to saying “more consultation” was necessary, although there had already been 3 rounds. And they produced their usual vote for local candidates, although all 3 of their candidates were from outside the ward, and all the Labour candidates lived there. It’s no wonder some of us are so hostile to local Liberal shenanigans. *cough* Miranda Grell *cough* A quite appalling episode. But of course whataboutery at its best. |
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Post by grahammurray on Jun 2, 2021 14:00:28 GMT
Grove Green was where I lived for 15 years. It is full of 2 storey terraces divided into flats, and has an extremely high level of private renting, as well as large numbers of EU immigrants. It was a bit surprising when the Liberal Democrats at their peak managed to get a seat in 2002. The defeated Labour candidate was someone I had worked with (but hadn’t realized was a Labour member). Unfortunately his name began with a W. I also remember this election because it is the only one I have ever not voted at, because I was in the process of moving to Birmingham. In 1998 or 1994 (I can’t remember which now), the Liberals were caught going down 1 street saying they were in favour of a traffic management system, and the neighbouring street saying they were against it. They then retreated to saying “more consultation” was necessary, although there had already been 3 rounds. And they produced their usual vote for local candidates, although all 3 of their candidates were from outside the ward, and all the Labour candidates lived there. It’s no wonder some of us are so hostile to local Liberal shenanigans. *cough* Miranda Grell *cough* *cough* Phil Woolas *cough* My brother lived on the Wirral in the 1990s. In his safeish Labour ward during the Parliamentary by-election he got a leaflet from them supporting a full comprehensive system for the borough and the cloising of the grammar school(s). His in-laws on the more prosperous Dee side of the seat got a leaflet supporting the retention of these grammar schools. In the Colne Valley some years later I got a Labour leaflet supporting the local tip being retained and the closure of a neighbouring one. A similar leaflet, but arguing the opposite line, was delieverd in the area around the other tip. Unfortunately the party had used a distribution company who got the two mixed up. With much hilarity. |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Jun 2, 2021 14:08:41 GMT
*cough* Miranda Grell *cough* A quite appalling episode. But of course whataboutery at its best. It is but it was in a neighbouring ward. Of course I endorse your sentiments about the Lib Dems regardless |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Jun 2, 2021 14:58:33 GMT
*cough* Miranda Grell *cough* *cough* Phil Woolas *cough* My brother lived on the Wirral in the 1990s. In his safeish Labour ward during the Parliamentary by-election he got a leaflet from them supporting a full comprehensive system for the borough and the cloising of the grammar school(s). His in-laws on the more prosperous Dee side of the seat got a leaflet supporting the retention of these grammar schools. Sorry, calling 'bollocks' on that one. Grammar schools were one of the biggest issue of the byelection. It was a major nationwide political event. The idea that inconsistent leaflets could be distributed without being spotted and turned into a major national issue of Labour Party competence is absurd. This is the Mandelson/Campbell era of Labour Party campaigning when message discipline was the number one requirement. The line on grammar schools was one which no-one would ever be able to alter. Care to go through the leaflets and identify which ones you think were inconsistent? web.archive.org/web/20121006064722/http://by-elections.co.uk/WirralSouth97/Labour.html |
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Post by grahammurray on Jun 2, 2021 20:48:15 GMT
*cough* Phil Woolas *cough* My brother lived on the Wirral in the 1990s. In his safeish Labour ward during the Parliamentary by-election he got a leaflet from them supporting a full comprehensive system for the borough and the cloising of the grammar school(s). His in-laws on the more prosperous Dee side of the seat got a leaflet supporting the retention of these grammar schools. Sorry, calling 'bollocks' on that one. Grammar schools were one of the biggest issue of the byelection. It was a major nationwide political event. The idea that inconsistent leaflets could be distributed without being spotted and turned into a major national issue of Labour Party competence is absurd. This is the Mandelson/Campbell era of Labour Party campaigning when message discipline was the number one requirement. The line on grammar schools was one which no-one would ever be able to alter. Care to go through the leaflets and identify which ones you think were inconsistent? web.archive.org/web/20121006064722/http://by-elections.co.uk/WirralSouth97/Labour.htmlI really don't give a stuff what you're calling bollocks. It was turned into a national issue and featured on Newsnight among others. newscdn.bbc.net.uk/1/hi/education/388688.stm |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Jun 2, 2021 21:23:39 GMT
Sorry, calling 'bollocks' on that one. Grammar schools were one of the biggest issue of the byelection. It was a major nationwide political event. The idea that inconsistent leaflets could be distributed without being spotted and turned into a major national issue of Labour Party competence is absurd. This is the Mandelson/Campbell era of Labour Party campaigning when message discipline was the number one requirement. The line on grammar schools was one which no-one would ever be able to alter. Care to go through the leaflets and identify which ones you think were inconsistent? web.archive.org/web/20121006064722/http://by-elections.co.uk/WirralSouth97/Labour.htmlI really don't give a stuff what you're calling bollocks. It was turned into a national issue and featured on Newsnight among others. newscdn.bbc.net.uk/1/hi/education/388688.stmGraham, what assertion are you trying to stand up? You've claimed that some Labour leaflets supported ending secondary school selection, while others pledged that grammar schools would not be altered. You've not come anywhere near making that stand up. Let me explain what was happening. Then Shadow Education Secretary David Blunkett had spoken against selection in secondary education at the 1995 Labour Party conference, though in general terms and without specifically referring to existing grammar schools. Labour's 1996 pre-manifesto document "New Labour New Life for Britain" said "The future of remaining grammar schools is up to the parents affected. We will not close good schools." You'll find that quote on page 15 if you want to check. When the byelection came along in Wirral South, an area which still had selection, the Conservatives did everything they could to try to say a Labour government would endanger the future of the grammar school. Picking up on the sensitivity and the importance of the issue, Labour took the opportunity to clarify its policy. David Blunkett announced on 6 February 1997 that any change to selection arrangements in existing grammar schools could only be initiated by parents and not by local education authorities. Accordingly Blair sent the letter which two years later William Hague quoted from, which said "Let me put the record straight. A Labour Government will not close your grammar schools. That is my personal guarantee." And that was an accurate explanation of Labour Party policy as it was before and after the byelection. If there had been, as you asserted there was, a Labour Party leaflet "supporting a full comprehensive system for the borough and the cloising of the grammar school(s)" it would have been a major incident. It might even have turned the course of the byelection. It would certainly have been national news. I am asserting that the fact none of this happened is pretty solid evidence for the fact that there was no such leaflet. |
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Post by grahammurray on Jun 2, 2021 22:02:24 GMT
Graham, what assertion are you trying to stand up? You've claimed that some Labour leaflets supported ending secondary school selection, while others pledged that grammar schools would not be altered. You've not come anywhere near making that stand up. Let me explain what was happening. Then Shadow Education Secretary David Blunkett had spoken against selection in secondary education at the 1995 Labour Party conference, though in general terms and without specifically referring to existing grammar schools. Labour's 1996 pre-manifesto document "New Labour New Life for Britain" said "The future of remaining grammar schools is up to the parents affected. We will not close good schools." You'll find that quote on page 15 if you want to check. When the byelection came along in Wirral South, an area which still had selection, the Conservatives did everything they could to try to say a Labour government would endanger the future of the grammar school. Picking up on the sensitivity and the importance of the issue, Labour took the opportunity to clarify its policy. David Blunkett announced on 6 February 1997 that any change to selection arrangements in existing grammar schools could only be initiated by parents and not by local education authorities. Accordingly Blair sent the letter which two years later William Hague quoted from, which said "Let me put the record straight. A Labour Government will not close your grammar schools. That is my personal guarantee." And that was an accurate explanation of Labour Party policy as it was before and after the byelection. If there had been, as you asserted there was, a Labour Party leaflet "supporting a full comprehensive system for the borough and the cloising of the grammar school(s)" it would have been a major incident. It might even have turned the course of the byelection. It would certainly have been national news. I am asserting that the fact none of this happened is pretty solid evidence for the fact that there was no such leaflet. Allow me to expand: "Picking up on the sensitivity and the importance of the issue (Ie a looming election), Labour took the opportunity to clarify its policy. David Blunkett announced on 6 February 1997 that any change to selection arrangements in existing grammar schools could only be initiated by parents and not by local education authorities" a mere three weeks before the by-election in an area with selection and were the local Labour Party had announced its intent to do what it could to close them. "It would certainly have been national news". It was. "We will not close good schools". Pretty meaningless especially in this context. |
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Post by John Chanin on Jun 3, 2021 5:40:31 GMT
Hmm....we are a long way from Waltham Forest, but this episode where Labour shamefully withdrew from a commitment to finish the comprehensivisation of English secondary schools, was one of the major factors in my leaving the Labour Party at this time. So from that point of view I am on Davıd Boothroyd 's understanding of events. |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Jun 3, 2021 8:09:12 GMT
Allow me to expand: "Picking up on the sensitivity and the importance of the issue (Ie a looming election), Labour took the opportunity to clarify its policy. David Blunkett announced on 6 February 1997 that any change to selection arrangements in existing grammar schools could only be initiated by parents and not by local education authorities" a mere three weeks before the by-election in an area with selection and were the local Labour Party had announced its intent to do what it could to close them. That will not do. The policy before that was not as you stated it. The policy was that "the future of remaining grammar schools is up to the parents affected." There was no such policy to reorganise existing grammar schools. [citation needed] |
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Post by grahammurray on Jun 3, 2021 8:54:40 GMT
Allow me to expand: "Picking up on the sensitivity and the importance of the issue (Ie a looming election), Labour took the opportunity to clarify its policy. David Blunkett announced on 6 February 1997 that any change to selection arrangements in existing grammar schools could only be initiated by parents and not by local education authorities" a mere three weeks before the by-election in an area with selection and were the local Labour Party had announced its intent to do what it could to close them. That will not do. The policy before that was not as you stated it. The policy was that "the future of remaining grammar schools is up to the parents affected." There was no such policy to reorganise existing grammar schools. [citation needed] The point being is that local and national policy clashed dramtically. |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Jun 3, 2021 9:10:45 GMT
That will not do. The policy before that was not as you stated it. The policy was that "the future of remaining grammar schools is up to the parents affected." There was no such policy to reorganise existing grammar schools. [citation needed] The point being is that local and national policy clashed dramtically. Wirral South's grammar schools came under Wirral council as LEA. Labour won majority control of Wirral council in May 1995 for the first time ever. Under the law as it stood at the time it would have been perfectly possible for the council to propose reorganisation of secondary education, to convert the grammar schools to comprehensives. No such reorganisation was proposed and even before David Blunkett's speech Labour was making it clear that there were no proposals to change the schools. You have yet to cite any evidence to back up your assertion. |
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Post by phil156 on Jun 10, 2021 12:11:16 GMT
Does anybody know if they counting tonight or tomorrow?
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Chris from Brum
Lib Dem
What I need is a strong drink and a peer group.
Posts: 9,732
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Post by Chris from Brum on Jun 10, 2021 13:29:17 GMT
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Post by olympian95 on Jun 10, 2021 21:54:08 GMT
Does anybody know if they counting tonight or tomorrow? Counting tonight apparently |
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Post by Adam in Stroud on Jun 10, 2021 22:43:58 GMT
I recommend reading, if only for this: |
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Post by olympian95 on Jun 10, 2021 22:45:14 GMT
Does anybody know if they counting tonight or tomorrow? Counting tonight apparently Grove Green is a Lab hold with LDs second - not sure of figures yet |
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