Minority majority seats

[right]

Should the boundary review have as a criteria (after equal numbers per seat) a criteria to carve out seats where ethnic minorities make a clear majority of the electorate as in America?

This would have two benefits. The first would be helping to create an ethnic minority leadership class and so helping integration into British culture.

The second would be to concentrate Labour voters into safe seats while distributing Conservative votes more evenly, thus creating more Conservative leaning seats than would be through a colour blind boundary review, and this could be done for the most politically correct reasons.

[Wisconsin]

No

[greatkingrat]

The only places where you could realistically draw majority BME seats would be large cities and these seats are nearly all Labour anyway. So reconfiguring inner city seats isn't going to affect the overall balance.

[johnloony]

QTWTAIN

[greenhert]

Mar 14, 2021 14:40:19 GMT right said:

Should the boundary review have as a criteria (after equal numbers per seat) a criteria to carve out seats where ethnic minorities make a clear majority of the electorate as in America?

This would have two benefits. The first would be helping to create an ethnic minority leadership class and so helping integration into British culture.

The second would be to concentrate Labour voters into safe seats while distributing Conservative votes more evenly, thus creating more Conservative leaning seats than would be through a colour blind boundary review, and this could be done for the most politically correct reasons.

No, definitely not, especially since there already are, and will continue to be, constituencies with a substantial concentration of BAME voters. The addition of two extra seats to London for example will create more seats where BAME voters form a clear majority of the electorate.

[Deleted]

This could have been a genuinely interesting question had the OP not decided to phrase it as a lazy troll instead

[Richard Allen]

Any case for such a scheme has surely ceased to have any validity given that the number of ethnic minority MPs we now have Parliament is pretty close to the ethnic minority share of the population.

[right]

Mar 14, 2021 16:28:18 GMT @europeanlefty said:

This could have been a genuinely interesting question had the OP not decided to phrase it as a lazy troll instead

Without the question of partisan advantage, would it be something you'd be interested in?

And if you are in favour, how much of a partisan disadvantage would you be willing to face?

[right]

Mar 14, 2021 16:34:34 GMT Richard Allen said:

Any case for such a scheme has surely ceased to have any validity given that the number of ethnic minority MPs we now have Parliament is pretty close to the ethnic minority share of the population.

Lots of these are rather rarefied public school educated figures such as Sunak and Kwarteng representing safe Tory seats. And that's fine as far as it goes, but is that representative beyond box ticking?

[greenchristian]

Mar 14, 2021 16:34:34 GMT Richard Allen said:

Any case for such a scheme has surely ceased to have any validity given that the number of ethnic minority MPs we now have Parliament is pretty close to the ethnic minority share of the population.

Indeed. There are some ethnic minorities which are currently under-represented in the Commons. But they are rarely, if ever, clustered in a way which would allow a seat to be drawn up where that particular ethnicity makes up a majority of the seat. And, of course, the fact that a seat is minority-majority does not guarantee that it will be represented by an ethnic minority politician.

[right]

Mar 14, 2021 15:23:33 GMT greatkingrat said:

The only places where you could realistically draw majority BME seats would be large cities and these seats are nearly all Labour anyway. So reconfiguring inner city seats isn't going to affect the overall balance.

It would mean that wards with a heavy ethnic minority concentration would be grouped together and it would I believe create marginals in Inner London in the current sea of safe Labour seats by a concentration of the non ethnic minority vote at the price of creating ridiculously safe Labour seats.

[right]

Mar 14, 2021 17:28:09 GMT greenchristian said:

Mar 14, 2021 16:34:34 GMT Richard Allen said:

Any case for such a scheme has surely ceased to have any validity given that the number of ethnic minority MPs we now have Parliament is pretty close to the ethnic minority share of the population.

Indeed. There are some ethnic minorities which are currently under-represented in the Commons. But they are rarely, if ever, clustered in a way which would allow a seat to be drawn up where that particular ethnicity makes up a majority of the seat. And, of course, the fact that a seat is minority-majority does not guarantee that it will be represented by an ethnic minority politician.

It certainly will help.

[Defenestrated Fipplebox]

Mar 14, 2021 14:40:19 GMT right said:

Should the boundary review have as a criteria (after equal numbers per seat) a criteria to carve out seats where ethnic minorities make a clear majority of the electorate as in America?

This would have two benefits. The first would be helping to create an ethnic minority leadership class and so helping integration into British culture.

The second would be to concentrate Labour voters into safe seats while distributing Conservative votes more evenly, thus creating more Conservative leaning seats than would be through a colour blind boundary review, and this could be done for the most politically correct reasons.

Artificially creating more ethnic minority leaders doesn't increase integration throughout society in any way. The elites stick together whatever their ethnicity. 

Personally I think creating such seats would be a backwards move and probably exasibate tensions that aren't really there.

This sounds like a London talking shop influenced by America idea to me, one that in reality has no relevance to Britain. 

[Pete Whitehead]

Mar 14, 2021 17:30:05 GMT right said:

Mar 14, 2021 15:23:33 GMT greatkingrat said:

The only places where you could realistically draw majority BME seats would be large cities and these seats are nearly all Labour anyway. So reconfiguring inner city seats isn't going to affect the overall balance.

It would mean that wards with a heavy ethnic minority concentration would be grouped together and it would I believe create marginals in Inner London in the current sea of safe Labour seats by a concentration of the non ethnic minority vote at the price of creating ridiculously safe Labour seats.

It wouldn't be possible to do this in London to an extent that created much greater concentrations than already (naturally) exist. There is a far lower level of residential segregation in the UK than in the US. It would be impossible to create a seat where Black people are in a majority for example. Easier in the case of Asians but then these already exist in areas where they are heavily concentrated (eg East Ham, Bradford West).
The only way you could achieve the two objectives you describe (or even either one on their own) would be to have some kind of equivalent of the Maori electorates that are used in New Zealand or the tricameral system that was used in late-Apartheid era South Africa. Then you inevitably get into the issue of how far you break it down. 'BAME' is a meaningless term as you could not argue there is an more commonality of interest between say Gujerati Hindus and Black Carribeans than there is between those two groups and the indigenous British population. You might separate out Blacks and Asians but then would you go on to separate Black Africans and Black Carribeans and to separate ethnic Indians, Pakistanis, Bangladeshis and so on - and that is just using the census categories - you can break it down more no doubt - separate seats for Sikhs and Hindus? Might as well have separate Jewish seats as well then. A couple for the Chinese and so on. I actually have devised 'ethnic seats' along these lines which are probably posted somewhere on this forum, but it clearly it isn't a serious proposition.

[timrollpickering]

How possible would it to draw a seat that resembled a US congressional district or rather a multi-jointed spider with an inability to cut off its web on the map?

Not that it would be a remotely good idea.

[No Offence Alan]

File this thread under "solution in search of a problem".

[rivers10]

Mar 14, 2021 19:20:16 GMT No Offence Alan said:

File this thread under "solution in search of a problem".

I'd prefer we file it under "OP is being a twat"

[finsobruce]

Mar 14, 2021 18:08:07 GMT Defenestrated Fipplebox said:

Mar 14, 2021 14:40:19 GMT right said:

Should the boundary review have as a criteria (after equal numbers per seat) a criteria to carve out seats where ethnic minorities make a clear majority of the electorate as in America?

This would have two benefits. The first would be helping to create an ethnic minority leadership class and so helping integration into British culture.

The second would be to concentrate Labour voters into safe seats while distributing Conservative votes more evenly, thus creating more Conservative leaning seats than would be through a colour blind boundary review, and this could be done for the most politically correct reasons.

Artificially creating more ethnic minority leaders doesn't increase integration throughout society in any way. The elites stick together whatever their ethnicity. 

Personally I think creating such seats would be a backwards move and probably exasibate tensions that aren't really there.

This sounds like a London talking shop influenced by America idea to me, one that in reality has no relevance to Britain. 

It's mischief making, pure and simple.

[Richard Allen]

Mar 14, 2021 18:13:12 GMT Pete Whitehead said:

It wouldn't be possible to do this in London to an extent that created much greater concentrations than already (naturally) exist.

And I don't see anywhere else you could do it either to any significant degree. Looking at Birmingham you could obviously change the Hodge Hill and Yardley seats so that one was overwhelmingly inner city and Asian while the other was overwhelmingly white suburbs but the latter would still very clearly favour Labour. If you want to maximise Tory seats in Birmingham you only really have two options. Firstly split Sutton Coldfield and merge it with Erdington to create two Tory seats in the north of the city. Secondly you can shore up Northfield by including Bartley Green in the seat at the expense of Kings Norton. Neither of these have anything to do with concentrating ethnic minority voters even tighter than they already are.

Also if you look to the Black Country you already have Walsall South and Warley concentrating ethnic minority voters in a manner that proved very useful for the Conservatives in 2019.

I simply don't see where right thinks that his scheme is going to create new winnable seats for the Tories.

[bsjmcr]

Mar 14, 2021 17:25:56 GMT right said:

Mar 14, 2021 16:34:34 GMT Richard Allen said:

Any case for such a scheme has surely ceased to have any validity given that the number of ethnic minority MPs we now have Parliament is pretty close to the ethnic minority share of the population.

Lots of these are rather rarefied public school educated figures such as Sunak and Kwarteng representing safe Tory seats. And that's fine as far as it goes, but is that representative beyond box ticking?

Fervently disagree with the OP's suggestion but do agree with this (though then again this is and can be a different debate). In my opinion Javid (millionaire too, but self made and working class background) and Hammond (state school educated, then Oxford) are better candidates and examples of progress/social mobility as it were than Sunak. Controversial opinion, but I would prefer a not necessarily BAME candidate in the high positions if they had a humble background as opposed to a BAME candidate who was born with a silver spoon. Though both would be preferable, which is why I say Javid is a good example, or Khan in London.

To join with the just-for-fun speculation of other minority seats going off Pete's post - you would struggle to form a Chinese seat given they are thinly spread though I would think Manchester Central is as good as it gets. As for Jewish seats - combining the northern parts of 'Blackley and Broughton' (Kersal and Broughton Park, and Crumpsall) with Prestwich and Whitefield from Bury South would be one, as well as the obvious Finchley and G'Green + parts of Hendon. Ironically I think Labour could have won the former (let's just call it Manchester North and Prestwich if it did exist, despite the antisemitism concerns.