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Post by bjornhattan on Mar 6, 2021 14:16:24 GMT
Had the recall mechanism (used successfully in Brecon & Radnorshire and Peterborough) existed in 2010 would the Lib Dems have still supported raising tuition fees if there was the possibility of their MPs being recalled - particularly in student-heavy seats like Cambridge and Sheffield, Hallam? You do know that a recall petition can only go ahead if the MP in question has done something seriously wrong? It's not just something the voters can force because they don't like a policy - it requires a crime to be committed. |
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Post by No Offence Alan on Mar 6, 2021 14:17:59 GMT
Had the recall mechanism (used successfully in Brecon & Radnorshire and Peterborough) existed in 2010 would the Lib Dems have still supported raising tuition fees if there was the possibility of their MPs being recalled - particularly in student-heavy seats like Cambridge and Sheffield, Hallam? The recall mechanism only applies to MPs who fall foul of the law, or parliamentary standards. Fuck all to do with what you are talking about. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2021 14:31:31 GMT
Had the recall mechanism (used successfully in Brecon & Radnorshire and Peterborough) existed in 2010 would the Lib Dems have still supported raising tuition fees if there was the possibility of their MPs being recalled - particularly in student-heavy seats like Cambridge and Sheffield, Hallam? The recall mechanism only applies to MPs who fall foul of the law, or parliamentary standards. Fuck all to do with what you are talking about. I confused it with the system in the US. Sorry |
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J.G.Harston
Lib Dem
Leave-voting Brexit-supporting Liberal Democrat
Posts: 14,762 
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Post by J.G.Harston on Mar 6, 2021 15:39:02 GMT
Had the recall mechanism (used successfully in Brecon & Radnorshire and Peterborough) existed in 2010 would the Lib Dems have still supported raising tuition fees if there was the possibility of their MPs being recalled - particularly in student-heavy seats like Cambridge and Sheffield, Hallam? You do know that a recall petition can only go ahead if the MP in question has done something seriously wrong? It's not just something the voters can force because they don't like a policy - it requires a crime to be committed. And Hallam wasn't student-heavy from the 2010 election onwards, Clegg could have immolated an entire graduate class in a wickerman without any electoral backlash. The students are in Broomhill, Broomhill has been in Central since 2010, the most student-heavy constituency in the entire country. |
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Post by Defenestrated Fipplebox on Mar 6, 2021 16:25:06 GMT
The recall mechanism only applies to MPs who fall foul of the law, or parliamentary standards. Fuck all to do with what you are talking about. I confused it with the system in the US. Sorry
In an alternative political history we could have recall petitions for any reason. In that case we could have had recalls of quite a few MPs Iwould have thought.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2021 16:30:43 GMT
I confused it with the system in the US. Sorry
In an alternative political history we could have recall petitions for any reason. In that case we could have had recalls of quite a few MPs Iwould have thought.
perpetual recall petitions in some cases I'd have thought |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2021 18:12:07 GMT
I confused it with the system in the US. Sorry
In an alternative political history we could have recall petitions for any reason. In that case we could have had recalls of quite a few MPs Iwould have thought.
No MP would ever be seated in a marginal seat, they'd be recalled the instant they got elected |
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Post by finsobruce on Mar 6, 2021 18:22:51 GMT
In an alternative political history we could have recall petitions for any reason. In that case we could have had recalls of quite a few MPs Iwould have thought.
No MP would ever be seated in a marginal seat, they'd be recalled the instant they got elected pretty much what used to happen in the nineteenth century when petitions against MPs for corrupt practises were legion*. It was worth getting one going as you might well unseat your opponent, and they would be trying the same against your MPs at the same time.
*this is not to say that a lot of them weren't without merit of course, just that the motivation wasn't the purification of politics.
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Post by LDCaerdydd on Mar 6, 2021 21:05:25 GMT
Just imagine the chaos recall elections would have caused following the “Poll Tax” or 2003 invasion of Iraq.
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Post by Defenestrated Fipplebox on Mar 7, 2021 7:36:15 GMT
Just imagine the chaos recall elections would have caused following the “Poll Tax” or 2003 invasion of Iraq.
Chaos?
Or just normal democracy under those rules.
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Post by LDCaerdydd on Mar 7, 2021 9:22:01 GMT
Sorry it was a flippant remark in response to the opening post (now deleted).
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Post by 🏴☠️ Neath West 🏴☠️ on Mar 7, 2021 11:53:36 GMT
In an alternative political history we could have recall petitions for any reason. In that case we could have had recalls of quite a few MPs Iwould have thought.
No MP would ever be seated in a marginal seat, they'd be recalled the instant they got elected Maybe there could be two recall thresholds: 10% of the electorate when one of the reasons has been triggered, and 25% (say) without the need for a statutory reason. |
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,889
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Post by The Bishop on Mar 7, 2021 11:57:09 GMT
Just imagine the chaos recall elections would have caused following the “Poll Tax” or 2003 invasion of Iraq. Some people would see that as a plus, of course. |
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iang
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Post by iang on Mar 7, 2021 12:08:22 GMT
No MP would ever be seated in a marginal seat, they'd be recalled the instant they got elected pretty much what used to happen in the nineteenth century when petitions against MPs for corrupt practises were legion*. It was worth getting one going as you might well unseat your opponent, and they would be trying the same against your MPs at the same time.
*this is not to say that a lot of them weren't without merit of course, just that the motivation wasn't the purification of politics.
And right up to the early 20th century, promotion to Cabinet Office meant resigning and fighting a by-election presumably on the grounds that you weren't in the same role that your constituents had previously voted for. It was those circumstances that led to the famous O'Connell by-election in Co Clare, but it also sometimes left governments devoid of a front bench in Parliament immediately after an election as several promoted front-benchers were temporarily not in parliament as they were fighting their by-elections. Between the 3rd and 4th Reform Acts (1884/5 to 1918) the key political role at local level was the local party solicitor who dealt with matters of voter registration, corruption etc - in a suitably partisan manner |
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Post by finsobruce on Mar 7, 2021 12:13:20 GMT
pretty much what used to happen in the nineteenth century when petitions against MPs for corrupt practises were legion*. It was worth getting one going as you might well unseat your opponent, and they would be trying the same against your MPs at the same time.
*this is not to say that a lot of them weren't without merit of course, just that the motivation wasn't the purification of politics.
And right up to the early 20th century, promotion to Cabinet Office meant resigning and fighting a by-election presumably on the grounds that you weren't in the same role that your constituents had previously voted for. It was those circumstances that led to the famous O'Connell by-election in Co Clare, but it also sometimes left governments devoid of a front bench in Parliament immediately after an election as several promoted front-benchers were temporarily not in parliament as they were fighting their by-elections. Between the 3rd and 4th Reform Acts (1884/5 to 1918) the key political role at local level was the local party solicitor who dealt with matters of voter registration, corruption etc - in a suitably partisan manner Indeed. A completely bonkers system, but it did produce more by-elections..so maybe it should be ....  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2021 14:56:03 GMT
What a horrific 'what if'....
If the public think the past 5 years of British politics have been tumultuous, unstable and unpredictable enough, I can't see the idea of a revolving door of legislators improving the situation.
There's always going to be at least a minority of constituents who don't support a policy position of their MP. It would be bonkers to have a recall system based on that.
Plus imagine the cost, the incessant campaigning, all those damn internet ads. I shudder at the thought.
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DrW
Conservative
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Post by DrW on Mar 7, 2021 15:09:04 GMT
pretty much what used to happen in the nineteenth century when petitions against MPs for corrupt practises were legion*. It was worth getting one going as you might well unseat your opponent, and they would be trying the same against your MPs at the same time.
*this is not to say that a lot of them weren't without merit of course, just that the motivation wasn't the purification of politics.
And right up to the early 20th century, promotion to Cabinet Office meant resigning and fighting a by-election presumably on the grounds that you weren't in the same role that your constituents had previously voted for. It was those circumstances that led to the famous O'Connell by-election in Co Clare, but it also sometimes left governments devoid of a front bench in Parliament immediately after an election as several promoted front-benchers were temporarily not in parliament as they were fighting their by-elections. Between the 3rd and 4th Reform Acts (1884/5 to 1918) the key political role at local level was the local party solicitor who dealt with matters of voter registration, corruption etc - in a suitably partisan manner It was because a Ministerial post was an office of profit under the Crown, the acceptance of which required the holder to seek re-election. It can’t have been a straightforward disqualification from sitting in the Commons like certain other offices, as them even with a by-election the holder would (presumably) remain disqualified. |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Mar 7, 2021 15:10:50 GMT
It was the act of accepting an office of profit under the Crown which vacated the seat, not holding it.
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J.G.Harston
Lib Dem
Leave-voting Brexit-supporting Liberal Democrat
Posts: 14,762
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Post by J.G.Harston on Mar 7, 2021 16:43:49 GMT
And right up to the early 20th century, promotion to Cabinet Office meant resigning and fighting a by-election presumably on the grounds that you weren't in the same role that your constituents had previously voted for. It was those circumstances that led to the famous O'Connell by-election in Co Clare, but it also sometimes left governments devoid of a front bench in Parliament immediately after an election as several promoted front-benchers were temporarily not in parliament as they were fighting their by-elections. Between the 3rd and 4th Reform Acts (1884/5 to 1918) the key political role at local level was the local party solicitor who dealt with matters of voter registration, corruption etc - in a suitably partisan manner Interestingly, that was covered on Radio 4 this morning. |
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Post by greatkingrat on Mar 7, 2021 17:00:46 GMT
It was the act of accepting an office of profit under the Crown which vacated the seat, not holding it. Although David Davis specifically requested to be released from the post before standing in the by-election, even though it was not strictly necessary. |
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