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Post by islington on Nov 25, 2022 10:55:54 GMT
I've pretty much decided on my submission for Essex (essentially just trying to find a less bad version of Harwich & North Essex and accepting that some of the other seats are a little sub-optimal) but I'm less sure about Suffolk and Norfolk. My main issue is that I don't like their configuration for Norwich, but because of the way they've done groups of seats near the upper and lower limits, fixing that requires knock-on changes affecting the Suffolk seats. There are several ways of doing that, but the more I look at the Suffolk seats the less happy I am with those - in particular, the way they've done Suffolk Coastal and CS&NI seems designed to keep all the worst aspects of both seats. I'm also sceptical that keeping Stowmarket and Bury St Edmunds together is actually good, but I suspect altering that is too much of a can of worms. But is it worth proposing more substantive changes to Suffolk Coastal & CS&NI to improve the coherence of the two seats, or am I safer just proposing a minor alteration that isn't great on its own merits to achieve the change I'm more interested in? Or am I better off proposing both, with one as my main suggestion and one as my fallback? For what it is worth it is possible to return to the initial proposals in Norwich without disturbing the revised proposals' Suffolk seats at all. I'm not sure any of the ways I've found of doing it are actually worth considering, but it's definitely possible. For example, compared with the revised proposals: - move Wicklewood, Hingham & Deopham, Maltishall from Mid Norfolk to South Norfolk - move Guiltcross, Harling & Heathlands from SW Norfolk to Mid Norfolk - move Fakenham area from Broadland (& Fakenham) to North Norfolk - move three wards at the west end of Broadland district to Mid Norfolk - move four wards at the east end of North Norfolk district (which have some broads!) to Broadland The resulting Mid Norfolk looks a bit awkward (but it is a "Mid"...) and Maltishall would be an orphan ward. Broadland would be changed quite substantially but actually looks better in some respects... I'm not advocating it, but if you can bring yourself to shift a single ward in Suffolk (compared with the BCE revised plan), you can do this:
All uncoloured areas as per the BCE revised plan.
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YL
Non-Aligned
Either Labour leaning or Lib Dem leaning but not sure which
Posts: 4,915
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Post by YL on Nov 30, 2022 10:27:56 GMT
I put in a submission arguing for Mile End to be the ward removed from Colchester.
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Nov 30, 2022 13:06:25 GMT
I put in a submission arguing for Mile End to be the ward removed from Colchester. Objectively it makes a lot more sense than removing Old Heath & The Hythe, but are there any other attendant changes you're suggesting? It would be logical for example to also add the 'Brasiwick' bit of Lexden to the the North Essex seat as it would be rather cut off from the rest of Colchester otherwise. Do the numbers work to allow that? I can't see that they wouldn't |
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Nov 30, 2022 14:03:12 GMT
Yes, that works fine - there are only about 650 votes in Braiswick.
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YL
Non-Aligned
Either Labour leaning or Lib Dem leaning but not sure which
Posts: 4,915
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Post by YL on Nov 30, 2022 15:29:09 GMT
I put in a submission arguing for Mile End to be the ward removed from Colchester. Objectively it makes a lot more sense than removing Old Heath & The Hythe, but are there any other attendant changes you're suggesting? It would be logical for example to also add the 'Brasiwick' bit of Lexden to the the North Essex seat as it would be rather cut off from the rest of Colchester otherwise. Do the numbers work to allow that? I can't see that they wouldn't Yes, that was included in my submission. |
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Dec 1, 2022 11:43:59 GMT
I'm not advocating it, but if you can bring yourself to shift a single ward in Suffolk (compared with the BCE revised plan), you can do this: All uncoloured areas as per the BCE revised plan.
My submission went in this morning - BCE-110277. In Essex I proposed putting Mersea & Pyefleet into Witham, Old Heath & The Hythe into Colchester, Stanway and a single polling district (West Layer) of Marks Tey & Layer into H&NE and Mile End and Braiswick also into H&NE. I don't expect them to go for a second ward split, and I don't expect them to move Stanway ward when it doesn't cover the entirety of the village, so as a back-up I said I'd be fine with just swapping Old Heath & The Hythe for Mile End and Braiswick. In Norfolk and Suffolk I more or less did what Islington suggested in the map above, except I left Elmswell & Woolpit in with Bury St Edmunds and instead put Kelsale & Yoxford into Waveney Valley and Kessingland into Suffolk Coastal. I'm not wild about that, but any more sensible remap requires you to separate Bury St Edmunds and Stowmarket and they aren't going to go for that at this stage. I also stuck closer to the existing Broadland seat, but said I'd be fine with an alternative that swapped the Fakenham area for Briston and Stody. |
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Post by carlton43 on Dec 1, 2022 11:51:29 GMT
I'm not advocating it, but if you can bring yourself to shift a single ward in Suffolk (compared with the BCE revised plan), you can do this: All uncoloured areas as per the BCE revised plan.
My submission went in this morning - BCE-110277. In Essex I proposed putting Mersea & Pyefleet into Witham, Old Heath & The Hythe into Colchester, Stanway and a single polling district (West Layer) of Marks Tey & Layer into H&NE and Mile End and Braiswick also into H&NE. I don't expect them to go for a second ward split, and I don't expect them to move Stanway ward when it doesn't cover the entirety of the village, so as a back-up I said I'd be fine with just swapping Old Heath & The Hythe for Mile End and Braiswick. In Norfolk and Suffolk I more or less did what Islington suggested in the map above, except I left Elmswell & Woolpit in with Bury St Edmunds and instead put Kelsale & Yoxford into Waveney Valley and Kessingland into Suffolk Coastal. I'm not wild about that, but any more sensible remap requires you to separate Bury St Edmunds and Stowmarket and they aren't going to go for that at this stage. I also stuck closer to the existing Broadland seat, but said I'd be fine with an alternative that swapped the Fakenham area for Briston and Stody. Speaking as one who lived for some years in that area in one of your named places, I think those are very sensible and considered and an improvement on all other suggestions and on my own musings. |
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Post by greenhert on Dec 4, 2022 16:38:30 GMT
With the second consultation in its penultimate period, my main gripe is with constituency names rather than anything else.
Here are the suggestions I have submitted:
Change Thurrock to Thurrock West.
Change East Cambridgeshire to Ely.
Change Hitchin to Hitchin & Stotfold.
Change Hertsmere to South Hertfordshire.
Move Stanway ward from Witham to Colchester, move Mersea & Pyfleet ward from Harwich & North Essex to Witham, and Greenstead ward from Colchester to Harwich & North Essex, along with a smaller portion of Lexden & Braiswick ward.
Change Bury St Edmunds to Bury St Edmunds & Stowmarket.
Change Suffolk Coastal to Felixstowe & Woodbridge.
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Post by batman on Dec 4, 2022 17:42:54 GMT
of course, Hertsmere bears a strong resemblance to the South Herts which briefly existed, from 1974 to 1983.
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Post by greenhert on Dec 4, 2022 19:12:07 GMT
of course, Hertsmere bears a strong resemblance to the South Herts which briefly existed, from 1974 to 1983. The key differences were that South Herts did not include the town of Bushey (then in South West Hertfordshire) but did include the St Albans suburbs of London Colney, Park Street, and St Stephen. |
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Dec 5, 2022 10:09:36 GMT
With the second consultation in its penultimate period, my main gripe is with constituency names rather than anything else. Here are the suggestions I have submitted: Change Thurrock to Thurrock West. Change East Cambridgeshire to Ely. Change Hitchin to Hitchin & Stotfold. Change Hertsmere to South Hertfordshire. Move Stanway ward from Witham to Colchester, move Mersea & Pyfleet ward from Harwich & North Essex to Witham, and Greenstead ward from Colchester to Harwich & North Essex, along with a smaller portion of Lexden & Braiswick ward. Change Bury St Edmunds to Bury St Edmunds & Stowmarket. Change Suffolk Coastal to Felixstowe & Woodbridge. How would you split Lexden & Braiswick? All of your suggestions seem very bad, but I'm curious exactly how bad. |
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Post by carlton43 on Dec 5, 2022 11:20:12 GMT
With the second consultation in its penultimate period, my main gripe is with constituency names rather than anything else. Here are the suggestions I have submitted: Change Thurrock to Thurrock West. Change East Cambridgeshire to Ely. Change Hitchin to Hitchin & Stotfold. Change Hertsmere to South Hertfordshire. Move Stanway ward from Witham to Colchester, move Mersea & Pyfleet ward from Harwich & North Essex to Witham, and Greenstead ward from Colchester to Harwich & North Essex, along with a smaller portion of Lexden & Braiswick ward. Change Bury St Edmunds to Bury St Edmunds & Stowmarket. Change Suffolk Coastal to Felixstowe & Woodbridge. On those names my preferences would be for :- Thurrock Ely Hitchen S. Hertfordshire Bury St Edmunds Felixstowe Each time opting for a single place name, but preferring a county location to the made up Hertsmere which has no relativity to place for anyone who has not been there or studied a newish map. I think my choices are clearer and leave no one wondering where the damned constituency really is. And I lived near to and worked in Stowmarket for some years. There is no need for it to have to be included, any more than there is for the charming and delightful Woodbridge over the much better known and not delightful Felixstowe. |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Dec 5, 2022 11:25:13 GMT
With the second consultation in its penultimate period, my main gripe is with constituency names rather than anything else. Here are the suggestions I have submitted: Change Thurrock to Thurrock West. Change East Cambridgeshire to Ely. Change Hitchin to Hitchin & Stotfold. Change Hertsmere to South Hertfordshire. Move Stanway ward from Witham to Colchester, move Mersea & Pyfleet ward from Harwich & North Essex to Witham, and Greenstead ward from Colchester to Harwich & North Essex, along with a smaller portion of Lexden & Braiswick ward. Change Bury St Edmunds to Bury St Edmunds & Stowmarket. Change Suffolk Coastal to Felixstowe & Woodbridge. On those names my preferences would be for :- Thurrock Ely Hitchen S. Hertfordshire Bury St Edmunds Felixstowe Each time opting for a single place name, but preferring a county location to the made up Hertsmere which has no relativity to place for anyone who has not been there or studied a newish map. I think my choices are clearer and leave no one wondering where the damned constituency really is. And I lived near to and worked in Stowmarket for some years. There is no need for it to have to be included, any more than there is for the charming and delightful Woodbridge over the much better known and not delightful Felixstowe. Except that Woodbridge was a longstanding constituency name for a not wholly disimilar area (which may not cut any ice with you) but also that it is geographically close to the centre of the seat whereas Felixstowe is in a far corner of it. I don't care for the name, but 'Suffolk Coastal' probably is the most appropriate in the end. |
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Dec 5, 2022 11:35:32 GMT
I favour calling it Suffolk Coastal for the same reason as 'Mid' is sometimes a useful descriptor for constituencies that are made up of whatever was left over. There is a perfectly coherent Felixstowe & Woodbridge constituency to be drawn based on Felixstowe plus the chain of settlements along the A12 to the east of Ipswich, and if we had that we could argue to our hearts' content about what it should be called. But Suffolk Coastal is actually a constituency made up of a grab-bag of areas stretching from Ipswich to Lowestoft with no real common identity and quite a lot of whose residents don't actually live that close to the coast.
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Post by carlton43 on Dec 5, 2022 11:44:27 GMT
On those names my preferences would be for :- Thurrock Ely Hitchen S. Hertfordshire Bury St Edmunds Felixstowe Each time opting for a single place name, but preferring a county location to the made up Hertsmere which has no relativity to place for anyone who has not been there or studied a newish map. I think my choices are clearer and leave no one wondering where the damned constituency really is. And I lived near to and worked in Stowmarket for some years. There is no need for it to have to be included, any more than there is for the charming and delightful Woodbridge over the much better known and not delightful Felixstowe. Except that Woodbridge was a longstanding constituency name for a not wholly disimilar area (which may not cut any ice with you) but also that it is geographically close to the centre of the seat whereas Felixstowe is in a far corner of it. I don't care for the name, but 'Suffolk Coastal' probably is the most appropriate in the end. Those are reasoned and telling points Pete. I am influenced by all of them and that constituency caused me the most thought. But on balance the sheer importance of the major port connection decided it for me. I am a person who leans towards the old historic names and when that is a Woodbridge which is also central to the area it made an impact. But overall Felixstowe will be much the more meaningful name to those who have never been to East Anglia. I can live with a 'Felixstowe & Woodbridge' but it is long and it is not necessary to the correct placing of the seat in the mind of an interested public. |
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Post by islington on Dec 5, 2022 11:45:40 GMT
I favour calling it Suffolk Coastal for the same reason as 'Mid' is sometimes a useful descriptor for constituencies that are made up of whatever was left over. There is a perfectly coherent Felixstowe & Woodbridge constituency to be drawn based on Felixstowe plus the chain of settlements along the A12 to the east of Ipswich, and if we had that we could argue to our hearts' content about what it should be called. But Suffolk Coastal is actually a constituency made up of a grab-bag of areas stretching from Ipswich to Lowestoft with no real common identity and quite a lot of whose residents don't actually live that close to the coast. 'Suffolk Coastal' is a sub-optimal name of a local authority and an extinct one at that. 'East Suffolk' would be my choice. |
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Post by greenhert on Dec 5, 2022 22:36:04 GMT
The problem is that the constituency in question is not coterminous with the East Suffolk authority, and even if geographically accurate, authority names by themselves should not be used for constituency names unless the authority is coterminous with the constituency it gives its name to or the authority is named after a town or city which the constituency comprises all of or the clear majority of (e.g. in the case of Ipswich).
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Jun 16, 2023 13:10:45 GMT
Not a serious suggestion, but I did wonder how the map might look if the BCE chose not to pair Bedfordshire and Hertfordshire, but instead to combine both with Cambridgeshire. I've found a way to do it that incidentally also more or less partitions Cambridgeshire between the former Huntingdonshire and Cambridgeshire & Isle of Ely sections, with the former going with Beds and the latter with Herts. Where possible, I've kept seats as they are in the revised proposals, though left to my own devices I'd probably go for alternate arrangements in a couple of cases.   Cambridge 72560 South Cambridgeshire 76827 - I'd prefer it to to take Trumpington rather than Cherry Hinton, but there isn't room without shedding wards elsewhere. It does unify all the areas which are actually Cambridge but in the South Cambs district, so Cambridge Outer might also work as a name East Cambridgeshire 77037 North East Cambridgeshire 70806 Peterborough 72273 North West Cambridgeshire 73556 Huntingdon 70185 - optionally, you could swap Alconbury for Great Paxton St Neots 74634 Bedford 70068 Biggleswade 72366 Mid Bedfordshire 70742 Dunstable & Leighton Buzzard 74069 Luton North 73266 Luton South 70197 Harpenden & Berkhamsted 71635 Hemel Hempstead 75839 Hertfordshire South West 71552 Watford 70576 St Albans 70881 Welwyn Hatfield 74535 Hertsmere 73256 - sadly there's no easy way to eliminate the profusion of orphan wards in Hertfordshire without widespread disruption to existing seats Broxbourne 75454 Stevenage 76338 - I don't like the southern tail here, but it fits no better in any other seat Hitchin 70472 Royston 75506 - or Royston & Cambourne, or if you're being particularly pretentious, Ermine Street |
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ricmk
Lib Dem
Posts: 2,633 
Member is Online
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Post by ricmk on Jun 16, 2023 14:50:27 GMT
I had 'Ermine Street' as a proposed constituency name in my previous submission, alas deleted before sending as I realised it was ridiculous.
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Post by greatkingrat on Jun 28, 2023 10:39:05 GMT
2 constituencies altered in final report.
Eastwood Park / St Laurence / St Lukes swapped for Victoria / Milton / Kursaal in Southend
5 renamings
Bury St Edmunds -> Bury St Edmunds and Stowmarket
East Cambridgeshire -> Ely and East Cambridgeshire
Rochford and Southend East -> Southend East and Rochford (gains 3 wards, loses 3 wards)
Saffron Walden -> North West Essex
Southend Central and Leigh -> Southend West and Leigh (gains 3 wards, loses 3 wards)
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