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Post by minionofmidas on Mar 31, 2021 12:39:59 GMT
SLanarks/D&G = 5.05 = 5 (and a great disappointment that this combination works out so well) Lothianx3/Edinburgh/ScotBorders = 10.11 = 10 Edinburgh/E Lothian is fine for 6 and Midlothian for one but I'm kind of having trouble envisaging that Livingston & Peebles seat being popular so it's entirely possible both W Lothian and Borders will continue to be linked elsewhere (and W Lothian/Falkirk/Clackmannan/Stirling adds up though leaves a problem for Fife and points ne). Not that that ends the Dumfries-Lanarkshire border crossing. |
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YL
Non-Aligned
Either Labour leaning or Lib Dem leaning but not sure which
Posts: 4,915
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Post by YL on Mar 31, 2021 13:43:57 GMT
How about:
Edinburgh 5
Midlothian 1
East Lothian/Borders/D&G 4 (precedents for both links)
Ayrshire 4
Inverclyde/Renfrewshires/S Lanarks 7
Glasgow 6
West Lothian/Falkirk/N Lanarks 7
Stirling 1
Fife/Clacks/P&K 6
Dunbartonshire 2
A&B, Highland, Moray, Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire, Angus, Dundee 12
Glasgow could replace E Renfrewshire in the Inverclyde to S Lanarks group, and Argyll & Bute could move from the big northern group to join the Dunbartonshires.
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Post by No Offence Alan on Mar 31, 2021 13:50:11 GMT
How about: Edinburgh 5 Midlothian 1 East Lothian/Borders/D&G 4 (precedents for both links) Ayrshire 4 Inverclyde/Renfrewshires/S Lanarks 7 Glasgow 6 West Lothian/Falkirk/N Lanarks 7 Stirling 1 Fife/Clacks/P&K 6 Dunbartonshire 2 A&B, Highland, Moray, Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire, Angus, Dundee 12 Glasgow could replace E Renfrewshire in the Inverclyde to S Lanarks group, and Argyll & Bute could move from the big northern group to join the Dunbartonshires. The idea of Inverclyde/Renfrewshire/Glasgow/South Lanarkshire being the unit is a good one. With "minimum change" being the guideline, East Renfrewshire is almost bang on a quota, so status quo there is sensible. With Glasgow going from 7 seats to 6, "minimum change" cannot really apply. |
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Post by minionofmidas on Mar 31, 2021 14:25:05 GMT
Trying to find a scheme that would allow grouping the Lanarkshires, surely the sensible thing to do if all else were equal (as it is not). But the best I have come up with so far suffers from, going from bad to worse, a Dundee W & Perth seat, a cross-Clyde seat below Glasgow, and the very minor hitch that West Lothian and East Dunbartonshire is a fairly sized but noncontiguous grouping.
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Post by islington on Mar 31, 2021 14:59:11 GMT
Well, the Lanarkshires are a tempting grouping with 6.97 = 7 and with the Ayrshires fine by themselves that leaves you D&G/Borders/ELothian = 3.96 = 4; Edinburgh with 5; WLothian/Falkirk/Clacks (yes, I know, but it's better than crossing the Clyde below Glasgow) = 4.06 = 4. You can then take everything else up the east coast all the way to Abs for 12.82 = 13; Midlothian, Moray, E Renfs and Stirling all standing alone with one each and everything else with 14.23 = 14.
I'm not promising it will work, of course.
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YL
Non-Aligned
Either Labour leaning or Lib Dem leaning but not sure which
Posts: 4,915
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Post by YL on Mar 31, 2021 15:06:41 GMT
There's also a tempting Aberdeen/Aberdeenshire/Angus grouping, but that leaves a problem with Dundee: I think you'd either end up with some weird Dundee West & Random Bits of Perthshire seat or maybe even the Beautiful Constituency of the Silvery Tay. And you'd also get a Drumochter seat...
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Post by islington on Mar 31, 2021 15:14:14 GMT
Yes, the Aberdeen Angus grouping is hard to resist on the strength of the name alone, quite apart from its entitlement of 6.00 exactly; but I left it out because it implies linking Dundee with P&K, which is fine on the numbers at 3.03 but I don't see how it can possibly work.
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Post by minionofmidas on Mar 31, 2021 16:21:47 GMT
There's also a tempting Aberdeen/Aberdeenshire/Angus grouping, but that leaves a problem with Dundee: I think you'd either end up with some weird Dundee West & Random Bits of Perthshire seat or maybe even the Beautiful Constituency of the Silvery Tay. And you'd also get a Drumochter seat... I don't know what a Drumochter seat is but if Moray is to stand alone you're either pairing Dundee with Perthshire or else chopping Angus into steaks - areas near Dundee with one or both city seats, coast with Kincardine, and a resurrected North Tayside. If you draw four very undersized seats in Fife it hardly matters (numberswise) where the drafted-in area is coming from - of course this means oversized seats in the Highland-to-Renfrewshire group (islington's version differs from what I had largely by implying that multiple crossings of Glasgow's n and w borders are preferrable to a Clyde Banks seat, which, fair enough. Mustn't grumble.) And they can't be in the Highlands. Also of course, I didn't mention it earlier but this means bisecting Argyll. They actually have pitchforks there. |
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Post by islington on Mar 31, 2021 16:54:50 GMT
With regard to Scotland I take a slightly more relaxed approach than elsewhere because I know from past form that the BCS will slice up wards with gay abandon, even in places where perfectly sensible non-split plans are readily available; whereas my approach, to the surprise of absolutely no one, will be to keep ward splits to the minimum compatible with drawing acceptable seats. But I'll still work up some plans, even though they have no chance of being adopted, because of the fascination of the whole process.
(Allow me to add that the BCS proposals last time were a very poor advertisement for ward-splitting, because despite indulging in it all over Scotland they still made a holy mess of Stirling, Motherwell and various other places; I'd argue that their overall scheme was no better, and probably worse, than I achieved without a single split anywhere.)
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Post by afleitch on Mar 31, 2021 17:02:57 GMT
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Post by 🏴☠️ Neath West 🏴☠️ on Mar 31, 2021 19:04:18 GMT
or maybe even the Beautiful Constituency of the Silvery Tay. Would be better than many of their other constituency names... |
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Post by finsobruce on Mar 31, 2021 19:35:59 GMT
There's also a tempting Aberdeen/Aberdeenshire/Angus grouping, but that leaves a problem with Dundee: I think you'd either end up with some weird Dundee West & Random Bits of Perthshire seat or maybe even the Beautiful Constituency of the Silvery Tay. And you'd also get a Drumochter seat... "With its boundaries so lovely and gay". |
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Post by finsobruce on Mar 31, 2021 19:37:18 GMT
Yes, the Aberdeen Angus grouping is hard to resist on the strength of the name alone, quite apart from its entitlement of 6.00 exactly; but I left it out because it implies linking Dundee with P&K, which is fine on the numbers at 3.03 but I don't see how it can possibly work. Will the authorities be cowed into creating an Aberdeen Angus seat?
Was there such a seat in the Rump parliament?
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Mar 31, 2021 19:40:18 GMT
Yes, the Aberdeen Angus grouping is hard to resist on the strength of the name alone, quite apart from its entitlement of 6.00 exactly; but I left it out because it implies linking Dundee with P&K, which is fine on the numbers at 3.03 but I don't see how it can possibly work. Will the authorities be cowed into creating an Aberdeen Angus seat?
Was there such a seat in the Rump parliament?
will be along in a minute to point out that Scotland didn't return MPs to the Rump Parliament |
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Post by finsobruce on Mar 31, 2021 19:45:27 GMT
Will the authorities be cowed into creating an Aberdeen Angus seat?
Was there such a seat in the Rump parliament?
will be along in a minute to point out that Scotland didn't return MPs to the Rump Parliament spoilsport.  |
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Post by greenhert on Mar 31, 2021 19:51:44 GMT
Will the authorities be cowed into creating an Aberdeen Angus seat?
Was there such a seat in the Rump parliament?
will be along in a minute to point out that Scotland didn't return MPs to the Rump Parliament That is correct, because Scotland had its own separate parliament before the Act of Union was passed. The Rump Parliament also did not represent some English boroughs represented in other parliaments. |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Mar 31, 2021 20:06:13 GMT
But Scotland did return Members to Cromwell's Parliaments which sat (de facto) while the Long/Rump Parliament was sitting.
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YL
Non-Aligned
Either Labour leaning or Lib Dem leaning but not sure which
Posts: 4,915
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Post by YL on Mar 31, 2021 20:31:09 GMT
I don't know what a Drumochter seat is A constituency crossing the Pass of Drumochter, i.e. crossing the Highland/Perth & Kinross border. Not nice but I think better than carving Argyll in two. Speaking of which, here's an out there idea for Argyll & Bute: include the whole of the historic county of Buteshire. That should get it within range, and while it'd make Ayrshire a bit harder it should still go. |
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Post by Adam in Stroud on Mar 31, 2021 20:35:10 GMT
But Scotland did return Members to Cromwell's Parliaments which sat ( de facto) while the Long/Rump Parliament was sitting. That's a lovely niche historical factoid. |
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piperdave
SNP
Dalkeith; Midlothian/North & Musselburgh
Posts: 911
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Post by piperdave on Mar 31, 2021 21:05:33 GMT
or maybe even the Beautiful Constituency of the Silvery Tay. Would be better than many of their other constituency names... I have been toying with a Tay Coast seat surrounding central Dundee, but it's a level of hideous I can't bear. So the Commission will probably propose it. |
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