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Post by Pete Whitehead on Jan 9, 2021 11:25:36 GMT
This isn't meant as a criticism of anyone who has included it in their plans (because it absolutely can work), but more a friendly reminder to anyone designing constituencies in Birmingham. North Edgbaston ward isn't really part of the modern Edgbaston area, so don't feel obliged to keep the two in one seat a la Yardley or Hall Green. North Edgbaston is really Rotton Park, which has far closer links to the city centre (ie Ladywood) than it does to the rest of the suburban Edgbaston seat. I think everyone who knows Birmingham is aware of that but as things stand (ie the current boundaries) Edgbaston has to expand somewhere and that ward is as logical as any of the alternatives. That said, I have come up with a different scheme which avoids it and is better than anything I'd done before. I need to look back through the thread to check I'm not basically repeating something someone else has done Edit: yes my Edgbaston and Northfield seats are the same as yours but I've got some different arrangements elsewhere. I'll throw this into the mix.. |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Jan 9, 2021 11:34:01 GMT
Apologies for any possible repetitions  I know the BCE obviously won't go for basically renaming North Warwickshire as Meriden even though most of it was in that seat prior to 1983 - would be a shame to lose the name though |
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Post by No Offence Alan on Jan 9, 2021 11:34:25 GMT
Probably not the best solution, but the four Wythall wards have almost exactly the same electorate as Shirley West and Worcestershire would still work without them. Apart from the colour of the street signs, Shirley West and Hall Green South sort of merge into each other fairly seamlessly. This isn't so true of Wythall, with the exception maybe of Hollywood. Wythall is full of absolutely not-Brummies with Brummie accents who would be at the pitchforks. If you wanted other places to rob from Bromsgrove - the two Rubery wards are the obvious ones. Keep your Brummy tanks out of Worcestershire  |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Jan 9, 2021 11:40:37 GMT
But then a slight variation on that theme leaves Nuneaton and North Warks alone and removes Castle Brom instead of Meriden, requiring little change elsewhere  |
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Jan 9, 2021 12:12:33 GMT
If you're not crossing the Solihull-Birmingham border but are crossing the Solihull-Warwickshire one, here's an option:  Solihull West 70537 Solihull East 74629 North Warwickshire 74575 Nuneaton 71101 Rugby 75851 Stratford-on-Avon 76256 Warwick & Leamington 75440 Kenilworth & Arden 76687 It's not exactly a least change option in the south of the county, but I thought this was an improvement on a seat stretching from Solihull to Banbury. |
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Post by iainbhx on Jan 9, 2021 12:43:47 GMT
Apart from the colour of the street signs, Shirley West and Hall Green South sort of merge into each other fairly seamlessly. This isn't so true of Wythall, with the exception maybe of Hollywood. Wythall is full of absolutely not-Brummies with Brummie accents who would be at the pitchforks. If you wanted other places to rob from Bromsgrove - the two Rubery wards are the obvious ones. Keep your Brummy tanks out of Worcestershire Much of Brum, including where I live in Birmingham, Yardley used to be in Worcestershire. Worcestershire does need some change, but you can almost certainly leave Worcester, West Worcestershire and Kidderminster alone. Something does have to be done about Redd Itch. I personally have added the two Alvechurch wards and Tardebigge from Bromsgrove and given Bromsgrove Inkberrow. But there are other options which involve various levels of redrawing. |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Jan 9, 2021 12:51:28 GMT
Keep your Brummy tanks out of Worcestershire Much of Brum, including where I live in Birmingham, Yardley used to be in Worcestershire. Worcestershire does need some change, but you can almost certainly leave Worcester, West Worcestershire and Kidderminster alone. Something does have to be done about Redd Itch. I personally have added the two Alvechurch wards and Tardebigge from Bromsgrove and given Bromsgrove Inkberrow. But there are other options which involve various levels of redrawing. Mid Worcestershire is over quota as well - one ward from each end of there to Redditch (Dodderhill and Harvington & Norton) fixes both problems without touching the other four seats |
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Post by No Offence Alan on Jan 9, 2021 13:08:53 GMT
Much of Brum, including where I live in Birmingham, Yardley used to be in Worcestershire. Worcestershire does need some change, but you can almost certainly leave Worcester, West Worcestershire and Kidderminster alone. Something does have to be done about Redd Itch. I personally have added the two Alvechurch wards and Tardebigge from Bromsgrove and given Bromsgrove Inkberrow. But there are other options which involve various levels of redrawing. Mid Worcestershire is over quota as well - one ward from each end of there to Redditch (Dodderhill and Harvington & Norton) fixes both problems without touching the other four seats Worcestershire is quite straightforward. Wyre Forest, Bromsgrove, Worcestershire West and Worcester can stay as they are. Redditch is under quota and Worcestershire Mid is over. This can be fixed by moving Dodderhill and Harvington/Norton wards into Redditch. (you could move The Littletons instead of Dodderhill but I think the Avon is a natural boundary) What he said. |
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Post by islington on Jan 9, 2021 14:18:31 GMT
 Sutton Coldfield 74584 Perry Barr 76127 Erdington & Hodge Hill 71074 Ladywood 74122 Edgbaston 71354 Sparkbrook 72534 Yardley 73869 Hall Green 72596 Selly Oak 73981 Northfield 74731 Bromsgrove 70375 Definite room for improvement, but there's potential there. As Pete Whitehead pointed out, the inclusion of the Rubery wards is not necessary because Northfield is within range (just) without them. So in effect this is a third 10-seat plan for Brum to go with the ones YL and I posted upthread. I don't think any of the three is perfect but at least we have the luxury of choice.
I'm not sure why everyone wants to take bits out of Bromsgrove. EAL has nabbed Rubery above, while Pete Whitehead has his eyes on Hagley. Yet Bromsgrove is within range and coterminous with its district, so isn't it exactly the type of seat we should try to leave be?
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Jan 9, 2021 15:19:44 GMT
Yes, I started off assuming I was going to need Rubery, and didn't notice that after I'd shifted Ladywood and Edgbaston around, the ensuring changes meant I didn't need it any more.
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Jan 9, 2021 15:40:17 GMT
I don't have any desire to break up Bromsgrove for the sake of it. I also assumed that I might need to utilise Rubery to make Northfield work (as seemed to be the case with the 2019 numbers). Instead I find that the only way I can get a decent Stourbridge seat to work is to use Hagley. Hagley is virtually a suburb of Stourbridge and a long way from Bromsgrove itself and poor connections to the rest of the constituency it is in. That in itself is not a reason to remove it but its certainly a mitigating argument. The fact is I am allowed by the rules to cross county boundaries whereas I am not allowed to draw a perfectly coherent Stourbridge seat which is comprised entirely of Dudley borough wards but which is 7 votes shy of an arbitrarily determined minimum electorate
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Post by 🏴☠️ Neath West 🏴☠️ on Jan 9, 2021 16:15:16 GMT
Yet another go at Staffordshire (quite like this one except for what it does to Cannock Chase and Stourbridge):  1 Tamworth 70625 Yes 2 Lichfield 70376 Yes 3 Cannock 74060 Yes 4 Burton 70182 Yes 5 North East Staffordshire 70174 Yes 6 Stoke North 73414 Yes 7 Stoke Central 70081 Yes 8 Stoke South 70795 Yes 9 Newcastle-under-Lyme 70025 Yes 10 Stone 72228 Yes 11 Stafford 70537 Yes 12 Halesowen and Stourbridge South 74600 Yes 13 Stourbridge North and Brierley Hill 70184 Yes 14 Dudley 70711 Yes 15 Seisdon 74622 Yes 16 West Bromwich West 73384 Yes 17 West Bromwich East 72474 Yes 18 Warley 72681 Yes 19 Wolverhampton East 70040 Yes 20 Wolverhampton West 75592 Yes 21 Walsall and Aldridge 71237 Yes 22 Willenhall and Bilston 76094 Yes 23 Bloxwich and Brownhills 76751 Yes |
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Post by iainbhx on Jan 9, 2021 16:46:14 GMT
Mid Worcestershire is over quota as well - one ward from each end of there to Redditch (Dodderhill and Harvington & Norton) fixes both problems without touching the other four seats Worcestershire is quite straightforward. Wyre Forest, Bromsgrove, Worcestershire West and Worcester can stay as they are. Redditch is under quota and Worcestershire Mid is over. This can be fixed by moving Dodderhill and Harvington/Norton wards into Redditch. (you could move The Littletons instead of Dodderhill but I think the Avon is a natural boundary) What he said. I really disagree with this. Whilst Worcestershire is relatively simple, putting a long finger into Evesham which is nearly 20 miles away from Redditch to avoid making a change to Bromsgrove is daft, especially as Evesham really doesn't look towards Redditch at all, Inkberrow is bad enough but at least people in Hanbury and Inkberrow mainly use Redditch Hospital rather the Royal and you stlll leave three seats untouched. |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Jan 9, 2021 17:11:14 GMT
I really disagree with this. Whilst Worcestershire is relatively simple, putting a long finger into Evesham which is nearly 20 miles away from Redditch to avoid making a change to Bromsgrove is daft, especially as Evesham really doesn't look towards Redditch at all, Inkberrow is bad enough but at least people in Hanbury and Inkberrow mainly use Redditch Hospital rather the Royal and you stlll leave three seats untouched. There's a good deal of sense in what you say but what you are suggesting here doesn't solve the problem Worcestershire does need some change, but you can almost certainly leave Worcester, West Worcestershire and Kidderminster alone. Something does have to be done about Redd Itch. I personally have added the two Alvechurch wards and Tardebigge from Bromsgrove and given Bromsgrove Inkberrow. But there are other options which involve various levels of redrawing. The two Alvechurch wards and Tardebigge do bring Redditch in quota but removing Inkberrow takes it below again (and I can't see how that fits with Bromsgrove). Additionally you still have Mid Worces being over quota. How about you go with the Alvechurch plan but leave Inkberrow where it is. If Bromsgrove then takes Dodderhill from Mid Worces they're all in quota and that does look a bit better on the map |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Jan 9, 2021 17:12:31 GMT
Everybody wants a piece of Bromsgrove..
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Post by iainbhx on Jan 9, 2021 17:29:49 GMT
I really disagree with this. Whilst Worcestershire is relatively simple, putting a long finger into Evesham which is nearly 20 miles away from Redditch to avoid making a change to Bromsgrove is daft, especially as Evesham really doesn't look towards Redditch at all, Inkberrow is bad enough but at least people in Hanbury and Inkberrow mainly use Redditch Hospital rather the Royal and you stlll leave three seats untouched. There's a good deal of sense in what you say but what you are suggesting here doesn't solve the problem Worcestershire does need some change, but you can almost certainly leave Worcester, West Worcestershire and Kidderminster alone. Something does have to be done about Redd Itch. I personally have added the two Alvechurch wards and Tardebigge from Bromsgrove and given Bromsgrove Inkberrow. But there are other options which involve various levels of redrawing. The two Alvechurch wards and Tardebigge do bring Redditch in quota but removing Inkberrow takes it below again (and I can't see how that fits with Bromsgrove). Additionally you still have Mid Worces being over quota. How about you go with the Alvechurch plan but leave Inkberrow where it is. If Bromsgrove then takes Dodderhill from Mid Worces they're all in quota and that does look a bit better on the map I'm just ranting about Inkberrow, I'd like to take it from Redditch but the only way you can do that causes severe disruption. I'd give Dodderhill to Mid Worcs. to sort that out. The Hanbury part of Inkberrow very much looks towards Bromsgrove rather than Redditch except for hospital services. The rest I'm not so sure about, it like Wyre Forest Rural is one of those very annoying wards when you want to make boundaries. |
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Post by iainbhx on Jan 9, 2021 17:35:38 GMT
Anyway, here's my Black Country  |
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Post by No Offence Alan on Jan 9, 2021 17:35:50 GMT
I really disagree with this. Whilst Worcestershire is relatively simple, putting a long finger into Evesham which is nearly 20 miles away from Redditch to avoid making a change to Bromsgrove is daft, especially as Evesham really doesn't look towards Redditch at all, Inkberrow is bad enough but at least people in Hanbury and Inkberrow mainly use Redditch Hospital rather the Royal and you stlll leave three seats untouched. The "long finger" is mostly Inkberrow ward, and you are proposing adding it to Bromsgrove, which stretches to Hagley. Harvington/Norton only extends that a couple of miles towards Evesham. I left the area over 30 years ago, but I sometimes got a bus from Evesham to Redditch. |
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Post by iainbhx on Jan 9, 2021 17:36:35 GMT
And for what it's worth, Worcestershire  |
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Post by iainbhx on Jan 9, 2021 17:41:10 GMT
I really disagree with this. Whilst Worcestershire is relatively simple, putting a long finger into Evesham which is nearly 20 miles away from Redditch to avoid making a change to Bromsgrove is daft, especially as Evesham really doesn't look towards Redditch at all, Inkberrow is bad enough but at least people in Hanbury and Inkberrow mainly use Redditch Hospital rather the Royal and you stlll leave three seats untouched. The "long finger" is mostly Inkberrow ward, and you are proposing adding it to Bromsgrove, which stretches to Hagley. Harvington/Norton only extends that a couple of miles towards Evesham. I left the area over 30 years ago, but I sometimes got a bus from Evesham to Redditch. I lived in Redditch for a brief period in 1995/6. I'm not fond of the place. I'm not proposing adding Inkberrow to Bromsgrove. The most logical additions to Redditch are the two Studley wards but they are in Warwickshire. |
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