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Post by gwynthegriff on Feb 23, 2013 12:52:22 GMT
I have to say that I am none too impressed by Farage's response to Marta's defection. Clearly there was bad blood between them but I think its a bit rich to cite her problems and departure from the EU Commission, as proof of how difficult she is to deal with. That smacks of double standards and pure opportunism. It wasn't too long ago that I recall him citing the case as an example of how corrupt and dishonest the Commission was. Mr Farage has done himself a tad of harm there in my view. he certainly has with me anyway. I was appalled that they put that response out as a party statement. I can understand it as an off the cuff remark from Farage but to put it out officially is staggeringly unprofessional. I get the impression that everything from Farage is "off the cuff". |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2013 13:00:03 GMT
Arnie, reading your thoughts on the blog I presume when you heard about the link to Le Pen it just confirmed the thoughts anyway. Arnie, as a mate, I would advise you not to answer that question. Whatever the answer is it will just serve to send him off on another rant about UKIP being racists. where have I said they are ? Arnie in his own blog states issues over the immigration policy as a reason for leaving. Would UKIP members be happy if UKIP were speaking to the FN inequivalent here and that is the BNP and not UKIP. |
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Post by stepney on Feb 23, 2013 14:20:40 GMT
I get the impression that everything from Farage is "off the cuff". Says so much, doesn't it? |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2013 15:23:48 GMT
]Arnie in his own blog states issues over the immigration policy as a reason for leaving. Would UKIP members be happy if UKIP were speaking to the FN inequivalent here and that is the BNP and not UKIP. It's really not. I'm no fan of the FN, but cynically, since its inception in the 70s, it's stood for whatever Jean-Marie Le Pen and subsequently his daughter have been thinking at the time. This has varied considerably, ranging from monarchism to economic liberalism to protectionism combined with social conservatism, sometimes emphasising strongly anti-immigration policies and sometimes not. But they've never really embraced the sort of ideologically-driven race-identity nationalism associated with the BNP. |
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john07
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Post by john07 on Feb 23, 2013 17:53:37 GMT
]Arnie in his own blog states issues over the immigration policy as a reason for leaving. Would UKIP members be happy if UKIP were speaking to the FN inequivalent here and that is the BNP and not UKIP. It's really not. I'm no fan of the FN, but cynically, since its inception in the 70s, it's stood for whatever Jean-Marie Le Pen and subsequently his daughter have been thinking at the time. This has varied considerably, ranging from monarchism to economic liberalism to protectionism combined with social conservatism, sometimes emphasising strongly anti-immigration policies and sometimes not. But they've never really embraced the sort of ideologically-driven race-identity nationalism associated with the BNP. In many ways the FN are the heirs to the Poujadist movement of the 4th Republic. Jean-Marie Le Pen was a Poujadist deputy. The movement pickd up many of the themes of the traditional French Right including xenophobia, antisemtism, anti-intellectualism, and in particular support for Algerie Francaise. The base of support were small shopkeepers and artisans. Le Pen picked up much of this support from the FN in particular fom the 'pied noir' who were forced out of Algeria following independence. Possibly there is also some influence from Charles Maurras and Action Francaise of the Third Republic I agree they do not quite sit in the same camp as the NF or the BNP although some of their followers certainly do. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2013 18:25:28 GMT
they want to appeal to the far right views of many. Course in France it is different the FN is much more sophisticated in it's message but the message is clear.
I remeber a clear example of when France won the World cup with a lot of black players and Mr Le Pen had a right go about the colour of the team.
No serious respectable party in this country should speak to the FN. Less said about the Tories and their grouping in Europe the better.
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Post by stepney on Feb 23, 2013 19:45:54 GMT
The idea that the FN are simply a French exact equivalent of our National Front because they share, mutatis mutandis, the same name, is exactly the sort of informed opinion I would expect from you.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2013 0:19:15 GMT
FN are pretty unpleasant, I would agree marginally less than the BNP but there isn't a whole lot in it. Its shocking how many French people vote for that option.
Ianrobo, have you checked out some of Labour's mates in Europe? Not that it really matters. Neither Labour not tory are an unpleasant party on this kind of matter, who cares who is in whom's european group?
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Feb 24, 2013 0:49:10 GMT
Ianrobo, have you checked out some of Labour's mates in Europe? Not that it really matters. Neither Labour not tory are an unpleasant party on this kind of matter, who cares who is in whom's european group? Who exactly are you referring to? The Irish Labour Party are a godawful excuse for a social democratic party, but they're not exactly comparable to the FN. It matters because who you are and are not willing to associate with tells you something about fundamental values, about what positions the party thinks put you completely beyond the pale. |
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Richard Allen
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Post by Richard Allen on Feb 24, 2013 0:53:37 GMT
It is probably worth pointing out that UKIP doesn't have any formal ties to Marine Le Pen or the FN. We do unfortunately have some very unsavoury "colleagues" in the EFD group.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2013 1:52:53 GMT
Ianrobo, have you checked out some of Labour's mates in Europe? Not that it really matters. Neither Labour not tory are an unpleasant party on this kind of matter, who cares who is in whom's european group? Who exactly are you referring to? The Irish Labour Party are a godawful excuse for a social democratic party, but they're not exactly comparable to the FN. It matters because who you are and are not willing to associate with tells you something about fundamental values, about what positions the party thinks put you completely beyond the pale. De Rossa (ok he resigned, but only 3 weeks ago) was a previous member of the IRA, thats pretty bad. Chiesa (is he still around) is a 9/11 insidejobber and a close pal of the kremlin.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2013 9:37:04 GMT
I wouldn't compare UKIP with the FN - it is more a case of there is no French equivalent of UKIP. Which gives French right-wing voters disaffected with the UMP with not much place else to go.
In that sense it could be argued that the equivalent voter base of UKIP and FN are similar, even though - as many will be keen to point out - there are great differences in policy between the two parties.
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Feb 24, 2013 11:17:47 GMT
De Rossa (ok he resigned, but only 3 weeks ago) was a previous member of the IRA, thats pretty bad. Chiesa (is he still around) is a 9/11 insidejobber and a close pal of the kremlin.
No, no. You haven't quite got the right idea. They are lefty unsavouries......They are reformable and their sins are forgivable. No. De Rossa is a member of the Irish Labour Party, and I find it very hard to forgive that. |
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Post by arnieetc on Feb 25, 2013 13:37:42 GMT
To be fair Mark, I'd just bought that suit & didn't want to put a pin through it! I read your blog entry and it was a breath of fresh air and exactly how I feel. I was genuinely attracted to UKIP (Pete would probably be appalled at the prospect  ), and was planning on giving my EU-vote to Mr. Farage, but I just couldn't handle the social conservatism, the gay marriage thing and sacking of the Young UKIP chap really through me off. If we could have a party whose economics was ran by UKIP and social policy by the Lib Dems I would be a happy man. As it I kind of go down the middle and hedge my bets with the tories. Do you have any plans to follow Marta across the floor? Joe, thanks for your kind comments. Yes, a UKIP economics, LD social policy party is something I'd feel right at home in. As for following Marta across the floor? Perhaps. I'm spending a little bit of time considering what to do next... |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2013 18:19:51 GMT
yep she has it all right there except for point three.
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Pimpernal
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A left-wing agenda within a right-wing framework...
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Post by Pimpernal on May 18, 2013 17:41:14 GMT
Now deselected by the TORIES.... Mwahahahaahhahhahahhah
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2013 17:47:54 GMT
Now deselected by the TORIES.... Mwahahahaahhahhahahhah Is it not that she just to get through the public vote? |
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Post by stepney on May 18, 2013 18:24:28 GMT
Now deselected by the TORIES.... Mwahahahaahhahhahahhah Correction: if she has been deselected (and it hasn't been confirmed on her Twitter feed) she has been deselected by a meeting of all Chairmen and all Deputy Chairmen (Political) of all 83 South-East Conservative Associations and all whole-member-elected South-East regional Party officers. Whereas if she'd stayed in UKIP, she'd of course have been deselected about now by the Lord High Saloon-Bar Bore and his cronies, on I guess the sole grounds of not being one of the aforementioned cronies. Elected UKIP county councillors in the South East would naturally have had no say in the matter whatsoever. Mwahahahaahhahhahahhah. |
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Pimpernal
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Post by Pimpernal on May 18, 2013 18:39:50 GMT
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Post by stepney on May 18, 2013 18:45:03 GMT
The oracle of unvarnished truth! Pound to a penny you, County Cllr Pimp, have absolutely no say in who goes up for your party at the election next year. None of your business y'hear. You don't drink with Nige at the Leffe-Des-Quat-Saisons on the Rue de Cushty when the Euro-Parliament is in session, you see. Standing up to Brussels ahoy! |
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), and was planning on giving my EU-vote to Mr. Farage, but I just couldn't handle the social conservatism, the gay marriage thing and sacking of the Young UKIP chap really through me off. 