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Post by Adam in Stroud on Dec 4, 2020 23:55:43 GMT
Surely at this point it is about little more than trying to stay in the limelight to build a new media career/keep the dynasty in the public eye/grift. Like the bitter-einders of Remain, or the Fash, or Class War, there's always a market to bilk cash off pearl-clutchers, the terminally outraged and outright idiots. You just have to stay relevant for long enough (and ideally not batter a fox whilst wearing a kimono). I now think this is literally Trump's game plan. His 'real' business is almost bankrupt and he is in debt. He has no future, except this: "Trump Lost the 2020 Election. He Has Raised $207.5 Million Since" www.nytimes.com/2020/12/03/us/politics/trump-campaign-moneyHe is merging his showbiz business with his political career, and he intends to become the biggest grifter in history. He will literally live by leeching his own religious sect for money, like a super Televangelist of a political religion. This means he isn't going away till he dies. I've always suspected that this is essentially why he ran for the Republican nomination in the first place. |
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Post by Adam in Stroud on Dec 4, 2020 23:59:19 GMT
People have said they were asked to leave. It's a Civil case not a Criminal one so it's balance of probabilities not proof beyond a reasonable doubt It still requires evidence. And has to be demonstrated prima facie by the party alleging the fact. But I refer you to john07's post upthread. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Dec 5, 2020 0:06:18 GMT
Trump's problem is that you can't keep the short grift going. He has to eventually walk away before it gets (even more) obvious.
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mboy
Lib Dem leaning
Listen. Think. Speak.
Posts: 18,898
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Post by mboy on Dec 5, 2020 0:12:57 GMT
Trump's problem is that you can't keep the short grift going. He has to eventually walk away before it gets (even more) obvious. You would think that, but look at the US Televangelists - their flock stays loyal to the bitter end. |
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Post by manchesterman on Dec 5, 2020 0:35:22 GMT
Indeed. His base seem impervious to any form of criticism of the man... I must try to find that video I saw on the very subject....
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Post by mrhell on Dec 5, 2020 0:44:41 GMT
Look, I want to help @kipper1 who has clearly never been to an election count in his life and tell him just how we, those of us who have been involved, rig (or more often do not rig) elections Yes GB elections are wide open to all kinds of fraud. If you have those involved in handling the ballots (especially postal ballots) in on the fix then really the sky is the limit.
You clearly know as much about postal vote verification and later counting as everything else. It isn't done in secret (you also share that ignorance with elements of the hard-left).
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Post by manchesterman on Dec 5, 2020 1:00:00 GMT
Indeed. His base seem impervious to any form of criticism of the man... I must try to find that video I saw on the very subject.... This is funny on a superficial level, but quite depressing really....
if you want to focus on the "impervious to any criticism" bit thats mainly 6:30-8mins
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Post by grahammurray on Dec 5, 2020 1:09:01 GMT
Look, I want to help @kipper1 who has clearly never been to an election count in his life and tell him just how we, those of us who have been involved, rig (or more often do not rig) elections Yes GB elections are wide open to all kinds of fraud. If you have those involved in handling the ballots (especially postal ballots) in on the fix then really the sky is the limit. Just look at the London Mayoral election, between the mass unverified mail in ballots and the uncheckable vote counting machine in oh have to assume the results are as rigged and scripted as WWE. The fact that all the frauds you mentioned and more are widespread and normal in UK elections doesn't mean that old ashes ballot stuffing at the count isn't a thing, that doesn't follow at all Which is just another massive hole in the argument. Yes. "if" you have those involved and it would have to be "only if". This is where most crazed conspiracy theories fall down. The number of people that would all have to be complicit in the fraud is just implausible. |
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Post by mrhell on Dec 5, 2020 1:50:07 GMT
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Post by greenchristian on Dec 5, 2020 1:53:25 GMT
Billy Graham - eat your heart out! Billy Graham wasn't a grifter. He was preaching what he really believed in the hope that more people would come to share those beliefs. You want an example like Jimmy Swaggert or Peter Popoff. |
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Post by manchesterman on Dec 5, 2020 2:05:52 GMT
Billy Graham - eat your heart out! Billy Graham wasn't a grifter. He was preaching what he really believed in the hope that more people would come to share those beliefs. You want an example like Jimmy Swaggert or Peter Popoff. Popoff was who I was really thinking of but couldnt remember his name , Thanks GC |
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Post by John Chanin on Dec 5, 2020 7:33:59 GMT
Look, I want to help @kipper1 who has clearly never been to an election count in his life and tell him just how we, those of us who have been involved, rig (or more often do not rig) elections It's done at the vote casting point. You can do it best in areas where you are utterly dominant, which often makes it irrelevant. A few more hundred onto your four-figure majority. But if you have a dominant area, in a big electoral vote and that overall is going to be close, you can maybe sway the bit you have control over. If you are the boss of a nursing home or have influence over such a person, you can ensure that every single resident is signed up and that they all vote, and if need be that they have help to vote, by someone who knows how they would really want to vote even although they don't know which meal is next. If you have a fishing fleet or similar absent workforce, you can arrange proxy votes for those who will be at sea. Or might be at sea. Who knows. You can remind skippers of the importance of everyone filling in their proxy forms and giving them to the local councillor. If you have a cohort of Asian voters whose wives tend no to be seen in public you can ensure that they have postal votes and that their husband hands them into you so you can ensure they are counted. And you can maybe help him get his cousin into the country. Or certainly not hinder it. Did I say Asian? That was very imprecise. Guess what I meant. Or if you keep a close eye on the marked register, you can establish over time who rarely if ever votes and you can pop along and vote at the polling station on their behalf. This however is very labour intensive and carries an element of risk. You can keep an eye on the death notices locally and ensure that being dead does not prevent a person casting the vote they would have wished to In all these cases, this does not actually sway many votes, but it ups the turnout of your vote greatly and in safe seats is largely meaningless, but in big seats or PR can really make a difference, and when the difference is an £60k salary and six-figure package to employ another four people it matters. But really, by the time the votes are at the count, it's too damn late. For Donald, it's too damn late Yes that’s pretty accurate. Some of it isn’t even illegal. Some of it goes on most of the time, but rarely does it make a difference, and almost never in Britain is it part of a sustained political campaign, but rather individual initiative. Personation, which some people seem obsessed about, is rare because carries danger. Most prosecuted cases of fraud relate to care homes. |
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Post by robert1 on Dec 5, 2020 8:24:28 GMT
On Nov 5th I posted
It may have been said earlier and I may have missed it but can we change the title of this thread? Which night, many nights, many days, weeks, stupid twitter posts, many court cases........
If I remember correctly (and I don't and someone else can produce the actual figures) but Americans have something like 5 times as many lawyers per capita as the UK. Very soon they will all be involved in re-fighting the election or commenting on tv channels!
Never guessed that one month on it would still be relevant!
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Post by yellowperil on Dec 5, 2020 8:30:44 GMT
On Nov 5th I posted It may have been said earlier and I may have missed it but can we change the title of this thread? Which night, many nights, many days, weeks, stupid twitter posts, many court cases........
If I remember correctly (and I don't and someone else can produce the actual figures) but Americans have something like 5 times as many lawyers per capita as the UK. Very soon they will all be involved in re-fighting the election or commenting on tv channels!Never guessed that one month on it would still be relevant! and we still haven't changed the thread title. |
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Post by matureleft on Dec 5, 2020 8:42:51 GMT
Yes GB elections are wide open to all kinds of fraud. If you have those involved in handling the ballots (especially postal ballots) in on the fix then really the sky is the limit. Just look at the London Mayoral election, between the mass unverified mail in ballots and the uncheckable vote counting machine in oh have to assume the results are as rigged and scripted as WWE. The fact that all the frauds you mentioned and more are widespread and normal in UK elections doesn't mean that old ashes ballot stuffing at the count isn't a thing, that doesn't follow at all Which is just another massive hole in the argument. Yes. "if" you have those involved and it would have to be "only if". This is where most crazed conspiracy theories fall down. The number of people that would all have to be complicit in the fraud is just implausible. And to double down on the implausibility, that among the large number involved, nobody blabs either through ill will or carelessness. |
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Post by Cromwell on Dec 5, 2020 9:43:33 GMT
Just look at the London Mayoral election, between the mass unverified mail in ballots and the uncheckable vote counting machine in oh have to assume the results are as rigged and scripted as WWE. Since you mention it, here's a story I'm sure the few other wrestling fans on here are aware - one worth repeating. When Vince McMahon's limousine blew up on an episode of RAW in 2007, Donald Trump believed he may have actually died on national television and called up to check on him. |
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mboy
Lib Dem leaning
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Posts: 18,898
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Post by mboy on Dec 5, 2020 9:59:30 GMT
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Post by matureleft on Dec 5, 2020 9:59:35 GMT
On the face of it surprising that the court decision wasn't more clear cut, but this was a decision on process and not on the "facts" of the claims. Two of the dissenting judges volunteered scepticism about the extreme "remedy" (disallowing 221,000 votes) proposed by Trump's team. The matter has been booted back down a level for testing of the claimed evidence and, presumably, may return to the state supreme court if, as one would guess, the claims are rejected at the lower level. |
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Richard Allen
Non-Aligned
Four time loser in VUKPOTY finals
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Post by Richard Allen on Dec 5, 2020 11:11:34 GMT
Yes that’s pretty accurate. Some of it isn’t even illegal. Some of it goes on most of the time, but rarely does it make a difference, and almost never in Britain is it part of a sustained political campaign, but rather individual initiative. Personation, which some people seem obsessed about, is rare because carries danger. Most prosecuted cases of fraud relate to care homes. In the US context personation must be close to non-existent as most states have some form of voter ID requirements. |
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Post by grahammurray on Dec 5, 2020 11:13:23 GMT
Which is just another massive hole in the argument. Yes. "if" you have those involved and it would have to be "only if". This is where most crazed conspiracy theories fall down. The number of people that would all have to be complicit in the fraud is just implausible. And to double down on the implausibility, that among the large number involved, nobody blabs either through ill will or carelessness. To double down on the doubling down, the people involved in the count are not party loyalists and some of them are employed just for the one night. This vast conspiracy would have to involve all of them pulling in the same direction and then, as you say, keeping silent about it. |
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