Harry Hayfield
Green
Cavalier Gentleman (as in 17th century Cavalier)
Posts: 2,922 
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Post by Harry Hayfield on Sept 10, 2020 9:18:59 GMT
The committee looking at the future of the organisation and structure of the Senedd is to publish its report today and will call for an 80 or 90 member Senedd elected by STV at the 2026 elections onwards. This will mean either 40 two member constituencies, 30 three member constituencies or any combination that produces a total of 80 or 90 members www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-54089835 |
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ilerda
Conservative
Posts: 1,112
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Post by ilerda on Sept 10, 2020 9:42:17 GMT
We can be fairly sure that will mean an end to Senedd constituencies mirroring Westminster. Was that link ever written permanently in law or was it just used for convenience?
Of course with Wales going to around 30 seats in the next boundary review, they could just give each of those 3 MSs as well as an MP. That would really confuse things.
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Post by carolus on Sept 10, 2020 9:44:31 GMT
Surely either 20x4 or 18x5 would be more sensible implementations of STV?
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Harry Hayfield
Green
Cavalier Gentleman (as in 17th century Cavalier)
Posts: 2,922
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Post by Harry Hayfield on Sept 10, 2020 9:55:35 GMT
The report has just been published and here are their actual recommendations:
* Legislation should be introduced early in the Sixth Senedd to provide that Members of the Senedd are elected by the Single Transferable Vote electoral system with effect from the 2026 election.
* The Member-in-charge of developing primary and subordinate legislation to introduce STV for Senedd elections should ensure that information about the detailed technical design and operation of the electoral system, and any associated financial or other impacts, is available to inform the
scrutiny of any Senedd reform Bill.
* Following the first election conducted by STV, the relevant Senedd committee should undertake post-legislative scrutiny of the primary and subordinate legislation, and any associated guidance, to assess whether the new electoral system had operated as intended and consider whether any further reforms were required
So it looks as though they have passed that onto the Senedd that will be elected in May next year
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nodealbrexiteer
Forum Regular
non aligned favour no deal brexit!
Posts: 4,463
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Post by nodealbrexiteer on Sept 10, 2020 11:42:31 GMT
The committee looking at the future of the organisation and structure of the Senedd is to publish its report today and will call for an 80 or 90 member Senedd elected by STV at the 2026 elections onwards. This will mean either 40 two member constituencies, 30 three member constituencies or any combination that produces a total of 80 or 90 members www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-54089835More politicians and a wackier PR system? And people wonder why there's a movement to abolish the Senedd |
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Post by AdminSTB on Sept 10, 2020 12:02:59 GMT
I honestly don't get this current obsession with STV as a possible electoral system for the Welsh Assembly/the Senedd, there's nothing wrong with the current Mixed-Member System implementation. With that, the easiest way to increase the amount of AMs would be to increase the amount of list seats.
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Post by Wisconsin on Sept 10, 2020 12:04:06 GMT
I had no idea there was a supermajority requirement for certain constitutional bills (s111A GOWA 2006). Fascinating.
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Post by Wisconsin on Sept 10, 2020 12:07:11 GMT
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Harry Hayfield
Green
Cavalier Gentleman (as in 17th century Cavalier)
Posts: 2,922
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Post by Harry Hayfield on Sept 10, 2020 12:18:08 GMT
I honestly don't get this current obsession with STV as a possible electoral system for the Welsh Assembly/the Senedd, there's nothing wrong with the current Mixed-Member System implementation. With that, the easiest way to increase the amount of AMs would be to increase the amount of list seats. The reason comes from 17 years ago Clwyd West (Lab HOLD) Alun Pugh AM (Lab) 7,693 (35%) Elected Brynle Williams (Con) 7,257 (33%) Elected (first on regional list) Janet Ryder (Plaid) 4,715 (21%) Elected (fourth on regional list) Eleanor Burnham (Lib Dem) 1,743 (8%) Elected (third on regional list) Peter Murray (UKIP) 715 (3%) Five candidates stood, four got elected. |
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Post by AdminSTB on Sept 10, 2020 12:21:18 GMT
I honestly don't get this current obsession with STV as a possible electoral system for the Welsh Assembly/the Senedd, there's nothing wrong with the current Mixed-Member System implementation. With that, the easiest way to increase the amount of AMs would be to increase the amount of list seats. The reason comes from 17 years ago Clwyd West (Lab HOLD) Alun Pugh AM (Lab) 7,693 (35%) Elected Brynle Williams (Con) 7,257 (33%) Elected (first on regional list) Janet Ryder (Plaid) 4,715 (21%) Elected (fourth on regional list) Eleanor Burnham (Lib Dem) 1,743 (8%) Elected (third on regional list) Peter Murray (UKIP) 715 (3%) Five candidates stood, four got elected. That was why (temporarily) candidates were barred from standing for both a constituency & on the list. Personally I see nothing wrong with that practise (and it goes on in Scotland with little comment), though I would prefer it if the lists were open. |
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nodealbrexiteer
Forum Regular
non aligned favour no deal brexit!
Posts: 4,463
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Post by nodealbrexiteer on Sept 10, 2020 14:28:45 GMT
And to think any Scottish/welsh assemblies that would have been set up as a result of a positive vote in the 1979 referenda would have been elected via fptp!
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Post by 🏴☠️ Neath West 🏴☠️ on Sept 10, 2020 15:06:05 GMT
And to think any Scottish/welsh assemblies that would have been set up as a result of a positive vote in the 1979 referenda would have been elected via fptp! FPTP would be a much better idea all round. Less gameable than the AMS system or that perverse STV thing. And it would mean that Welsh people would have genuinely hyper-local assembly-members, rather than people who cover some abstruse region that extends from Crickhowell to Bardsey Island and from Llanymynech to Pembroke Dock. |
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J.G.Harston
Lib Dem
Leave-voting Brexit-supporting Liberal Democrat
Posts: 14,840
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Post by J.G.Harston on Sept 10, 2020 15:08:29 GMT
The committee looking at the future of the organisation and structure of the Senedd is to publish its report today and will call for an 80 or 90 member Senedd elected by STV at the 2026 elections onwards. This will mean either 40 two member constituencies, 30 three member constituencies or any combination that produces a total of 80 or 90 members www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-54089835More politicians and a wackier PR system? And people wonder why there's a movement to abolish the Senedd The current 40 WAMs means each seat is coterminal with a Westminster seat. It would be useful to keep this linkage, but the numbers all come out wrong. |
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Post by minionofmidas on Sept 10, 2020 15:47:39 GMT
Surely either 20x4 or 18x5 would be more sensible implementations of STV? Of course, but have a look at how Wales implemented mmp. Why would they implement another electoral system more sensibly? |
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johng
Labour
Posts: 4,850
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Post by johng on Sept 10, 2020 16:00:50 GMT
The AMS system is perverse, but to have two member STV seats would be too.
Either have proper STV with 4+ member seats (which isn't my preference) or stick to FPTP.
If people insist on having lists, they should be open lists. Closed lists remove the power of the electorate to boot politicians out. Though that would lead to ballot papers metres long and be confusing for many.
I don't see how keeping to linkage to Westminster seats wouldn't work either. Each seat could elect two members.
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Post by Wisconsin on Sept 10, 2020 17:10:42 GMT
The report doesn’t suggest 2-member constituencies.
They don’t appear to come to a firm position, and I think have left the details TBD, but the starting points from the experts were either 20 constituencies of 3-5 members, or 17 constituencies of 3-7 members.
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Post by 🏴☠️ Neath West 🏴☠️ on Sept 10, 2020 17:16:09 GMT
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Post by carolus on Sept 10, 2020 17:23:19 GMT
One thing to bear in mind is that the forthcoming Westminster boundary review is going to cut the number of constituencies in Wales quite significantly. So, unless there's a willingness to cut the number of Senedd constituencies similarly, the Senedd boundaries are going to diverge from the Westminster ones anyway.
Given the number of STV constituencies we're talking about, would there be any sense in aligning them to the council areas? I'd think it would require some constituencies to have different numbers of seats, but at the very least it would avoid creating another completely new set of boundaries.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2020 17:37:07 GMT
I honestly don't get this current obsession with STV as a possible electoral system for the Welsh Assembly/the Senedd, there's nothing wrong with the current Mixed-Member System implementation. With that, the easiest way to increase the amount of AMs would be to increase the amount of list seats. There's a lot wrong with the implementation, but it is the best system available. This is why I'm seriously reconsidering my support for PR in the UK - even the people who support can't seem to stop fucking it up. |
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Post by 🏴☠️ Neath West 🏴☠️ on Sept 10, 2020 17:45:50 GMT
One thing to bear in mind is that the forthcoming Westminster boundary review is going to cut the number of constituencies in Wales quite significantly. So, unless there's a willingness to cut the number of Senedd constituencies similarly, the Senedd boundaries are going to diverge from the Westminster ones anyway. Given the number of STV constituencies we're talking about, would there be any sense in aligning them to the council areas? I'd think it would require some constituencies to have different numbers of seats, but at the very least it would avoid creating another completely new set of boundaries. That's an interesting idea, but if you want 80 seats, it would give a range of constituency sizes of 2-9 (using Local Government Electors from December 2019 and the Huntington-Hill method of apportionment): 9 – Cardiff 6 – Swansea, Rhondda Cynon Taf 5 – Carmarthenshire 4 – Caerphilly, Flintshire, Newport, Neath Port Talbot, Bridgend, Powys 3 – Wrexham, Vale of Glamorgan, Pembrokeshire, Conwy, Gwynedd, Denbighshire 2 – Monmouthshire, Torfaen, Ceredigion, Isle of Anglesey, Blaenau Gwent, Merthyr Tydfil Some of these also average some pretty awful deviations from average constituency size: Powys: -11% Caerphilly: +13% Vale of Glamorgan: +14% Isle of Anglesey: -14% Blaenau Gwent: -14% Wrexham: +15% Denbighshire: -15% Torfaen: +18% Monmouthshire: +24% Merthyr Tydfil: -24% If you want everywhere to have at least 3 seats, Merthyr Tydfil finally goes up to 3 at a house size of 132, by which time Cardiff has 15 members, Swansea and Rhondda Cynon Taf 10 apiece, and Carmarthenshire 8. |
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