Community Councils in Metropolitan Districts

[ilerda]

Another problem I noticed with the parishes in Sheffield is that when the parished areas were added in in 1974 they covered areas that have undergone rapid development since then.

Ecclesfield and Bradfield parishes both include a large numbers of highly varies communities that have very little in common. What we end up is internal conflict over which village gets allocated more resources than others and it ends up becoming, for want of a better word, ridiculously parochial.

I personally feel they would all be much better served by having individual neighbourhood councils rather than being part of one massive super parish.

[swindonlad]

Aug 10, 2020 21:15:17 GMT bjornhattan said:

Aug 10, 2020 20:52:28 GMT andrewteale said:

One English metropolis has gone down the route of establishing parish councils to cover the entire urban area: that's Milton Keynes. In population terms some of MK's parishes are very large (West Bletchley is one of the largest parishes in England, with a population over 22,000), bot most are rather small. It would be interesting to hear how that works.

Swindon is another large-ish place which has a similar set up. Though I'm not sure how well they function - Central Swindon South has a population of 60,000, and includes an extreme diversity of communities. It incorporates the town centre itself, the very ethnically diverse terraces just east of it, the pleasant streets with their commuters that ascend the hill south of the town centre, the suburban centre of Old Town, and even the rural fringes of the town to the south. I can't see how that's a cohesive unit which represents a common community, but someone with local knowledge may know differently.

It doesn't work well, as you say, too diverse a population. Possibly not helped by being Labour controlled where the Borough Council is Conservative but should have been set up differently, however, the Conservative group on the Borough didn't want to listen to alternative views, including from its own group members.

[J.G.Harston]

Aug 12, 2020 11:23:52 GMT ilerda said:

Ecclesfield and Bradfield parishes both include a large numbers of highly varies communities that have very little in common. What we end up is internal conflict over which village gets allocated more resources than others and it ends up becoming, for want of a better word, ridiculously parochial.

I personally feel they would all be much better served by having individual neighbourhood councils rather than being part of one massive super parish.

Why not individual parishes? There was a small movement in the noughtiesghties to split Grenoside out of Ecclesfield. Bradfield was originally split off from Ecclesfield in the 1920s.

However Ecclesfield does feel quite well balanced as four more-or-less equal communities. The Parish Hall is even deliberately *not* in Ecclesfield.

What is outstanding is tidying up the southern edge of Ecclesfield Parish, the 1968 annexation was drawn arbitarily across fields which now slices through houses. There are about four roads that are socio-functio-logically part of the parish and should be within the parish.

[ilerda]

Aug 12, 2020 16:01:17 GMT J.G.Harston said:

Aug 12, 2020 11:23:52 GMT ilerda said:

Ecclesfield and Bradfield parishes both include a large numbers of highly varies communities that have very little in common. What we end up is internal conflict over which village gets allocated more resources than others and it ends up becoming, for want of a better word, ridiculously parochial.

I personally feel they would all be much better served by having individual neighbourhood councils rather than being part of one massive super parish.

Why not individual parishes? There was a small movement in the noughtiesghties to split Grenoside out of Ecclesfield. Bradfield was originally split off from Ecclesfield in the 1920s.

However Ecclesfield does feel quite well balanced as four more-or-less equal communities. The Parish Hall is even deliberately *not* in Ecclesfield.

What is outstanding is tidying up the southern edge of Ecclesfield Parish, the 1968 annexation was drawn arbitarily across fields which now slices through houses. There are about four roads that are socio-functio-logically part of the parish and should be within the parish.

Sorry yes, by neighbourhood councils I do mean individual parish councils for each village. I think terminology needs to be varied depending on the sort of community that's all. Somewhere that is a core part of the urban area and not a stand-alone entity as such Broomhill would be a neighbourhood, but separate villages or self-contained suburbs such as Grenoside or Beighton could be parishes.

I agree the southern border of Ecclesfield is ridiculous, and part of the thinking behind a full-scale review would be a chance to iron out these sorts of anomalies. 

[November_Rain]

I understand Solihull a Metropolitan District has community / parish councils. Three of these are in urban areas such as Chelmsley Wood, Smith's Wood and Kingshurst and Fordbridge!

[Yaffles]

Birmingham - the biggest of all the Mets has two. Sutton Coldfield, very new and I believe the largest in England, and New Frankley which was placed in the city after expansion into Worcestershire.

[Chris from Brum]

Aug 13, 2020 13:57:03 GMT November_Rain said:

I understand Solihull a Metropolitan District has community / parish councils. Three of these are in urban areas such as Chelmsley Wood, Smith's Wood and Kingshurst and Fordbridge!

A mate of mine was (Labour) mayor of Chelmsley Wood.  Unfortunately, during his term he moved out to Leicestershire!  I think he completed the term then stood down as a councillor.

[Chris from Brum]

Aug 13, 2020 14:22:09 GMT Yaffles said:

Birmingham - the biggest of all the Mets has two. Sutton Coldfield, very new and I believe the largest in England, and New Frankley which was placed in the city after expansion into Worcestershire.

Sutton Coldfield is c. 100,000 population, and I'd be astonished if there were a larger civil parish.   New Frankley is a lot smaller at less than 8,000.

[J.G.Harston]

Aug 13, 2020 14:22:09 GMT Yaffles said:

Birmingham - the biggest of all the Mets has two. Sutton Coldfield, very new and I believe the largest in England, and New Frankley which was placed in the city after expansion into Worcestershire.

Sutton Coldfield is odd as it was a 1974 absorbtion but didn't get a preserved parish council as almost all other absorbed UDC/MDCs did.

[November_Rain]

I keep forgetting Sutton Coldfield has a parish council, and as mentioned I am surprised they didn't have a legacy one after 1974. What's the make-up there? I know one of the Conservative councillors on the Parish owns a dodgyish pub where a school reunion I was invited to (I refused as I don't want to know, and because of the timing and the Corona) is being held in December. 

I gather the Solihull ones are apolitical?

[andrewp]

Aug 13, 2020 15:34:26 GMT November_Rain said:

I keep forgetting Sutton Coldfield has a parish council, and as mentioned I am surprised they didn't have a legacy one after 1974. What's the make-up there? I know one of the Conservative councillors on the Parish owns a dodgyish pub where a school reunion I was invited to (I refused as I don't want to know, and because of the timing and the Corona) is being held in December. 

I gather the Solihull ones are apolitical?

Con 21 Labour 3

[Chris from Brum]

Aug 13, 2020 15:34:26 GMT November_Rain said:

I keep forgetting Sutton Coldfield has a parish council, and as mentioned I am surprised they didn't have a legacy one after 1974. What's the make-up there? I know one of the Conservative councillors on the Parish owns a dodgyish pub where a school reunion I was invited to (I refused as I don't want to know, and because of the timing and the Corona) is being held in December. 

I gather the Solihull ones are apolitical?

I don't think so, I believe party labels are on the ballot paper.  Whether they're run in a partisan way I don't know.

It's not that surprising that Sutton didn't get a parish council - neither did Halesowen or Stourbridge (absorbed into Dudley), nor Aldridge-Brownhills (absorbed into Walsall), nor Allesley and Keresley (both absorbed into Coventry).

[November_Rain]

Aug 13, 2020 15:39:05 GMT andrewp said:

Aug 13, 2020 15:34:26 GMT November_Rain said:

I keep forgetting Sutton Coldfield has a parish council, and as mentioned I am surprised they didn't have a legacy one after 1974. What's the make-up there? I know one of the Conservative councillors on the Parish owns a dodgyish pub where a school reunion I was invited to (I refused as I don't want to know, and because of the timing and the Corona) is being held in December. 

I gather the Solihull ones are apolitical?

Con 21 Labour 3

Thank you - that I expected there, with the Labour representatives in the usual places. 

[November_Rain]

Aug 13, 2020 15:45:03 GMT Chris from Brum said:

Aug 13, 2020 15:34:26 GMT November_Rain said:

I keep forgetting Sutton Coldfield has a parish council, and as mentioned I am surprised they didn't have a legacy one after 1974. What's the make-up there? I know one of the Conservative councillors on the Parish owns a dodgyish pub where a school reunion I was invited to (I refused as I don't want to know, and because of the timing and the Corona) is being held in December. 

I gather the Solihull ones are apolitical?

I don't think so, I believe party labels are on the ballot paper.  Whether they're run in a partisan way I don't know.

It's not that surprising that Sutton didn't get a parish council - neither did Halesowen or Stourbridge (absorbed into Dudley), nor Aldridge-Brownhills (absorbed into Walsall), nor Allesley and Keresley (both absorbed into Coventry).

Thank you - I just remember liasing when I had a Twitter account in the 2019 locals with the Labour candidate who stood in Chelmsley Wood for the district also became a councillor for the parish, but she was non-partisan on the paper for said election. I gather some do state their allegiance. 

Those areas would be perfect fit for a parish council, but I guess there's not a desire for it. 

[YL]

One interesting example is Bradford Trident, which is a civil parish created a few years ago in part of Bradford proper. (Bradford has several other parishes in the areas added in 1974, like other Mets.) As with the MK and Welsh examples, I'd be interested to know how it's felt to work in practice.

[greenchristian]

Aug 13, 2020 15:45:03 GMT Chris from Brum said:

Aug 13, 2020 15:34:26 GMT November_Rain said:

I keep forgetting Sutton Coldfield has a parish council, and as mentioned I am surprised they didn't have a legacy one after 1974. What's the make-up there? I know one of the Conservative councillors on the Parish owns a dodgyish pub where a school reunion I was invited to (I refused as I don't want to know, and because of the timing and the Corona) is being held in December. 

I gather the Solihull ones are apolitical?

I don't think so, I believe party labels are on the ballot paper.  Whether they're run in a partisan way I don't know.

It's not that surprising that Sutton didn't get a parish council - neither did Halesowen or Stourbridge (absorbed into Dudley), nor Aldridge-Brownhills (absorbed into Walsall), nor Allesley and Keresley (both absorbed into Coventry).

I hadn't realised that there was a period where Allesley and Keresley didn't have parishes. Do you know when they were re-established?

[Chris from Brum]

Aug 13, 2020 16:58:05 GMT greenchristian said:

Aug 13, 2020 15:45:03 GMT Chris from Brum said:

I don't think so, I believe party labels are on the ballot paper.  Whether they're run in a partisan way I don't know.

It's not that surprising that Sutton didn't get a parish council - neither did Halesowen or Stourbridge (absorbed into Dudley), nor Aldridge-Brownhills (absorbed into Walsall), nor Allesley and Keresley (both absorbed into Coventry).

I hadn't realised that there was a period where Allesley and Keresley didn't have parishes. Do you know when they were re-established?

Actually, I may have been wrong about those two, but neither parish council website is terribly helpful, nor is the Coventry CC site. It's simply that it was highly unusual for any area absorbed into a metropolitan district in 1974 to retain a parish council, whereas in the shire counties it was much more common.

[🏴‍☠️ Neath West 🏴‍☠️]

Aug 12, 2020 11:23:52 GMT ilerda said:

Another problem I noticed with the parishes in Sheffield is that when the parished areas were added in in 1974 they covered areas that have undergone rapid development since then.

Ecclesfield and Bradfield parishes both include a large numbers of highly varies communities that have very little in common. What we end up is internal conflict over which village gets allocated more resources than others and it ends up becoming, for want of a better word, ridiculously parochial.

I personally feel they would all be much better served by having individual neighbourhood councils rather than being part of one massive super parish.

Isn't there an historic issue that parishes in the North are by-and-large geographically larger than those in the Midlands/South? (Something half-remembered, may well not be right.)

[neilm]

Aug 10, 2020 20:52:28 GMT andrewteale said:

One English metropolis has gone down the route of establishing parish councils to cover the entire urban area: that's Milton Keynes. In population terms some of MK's parishes are very large (West Bletchley is one of the largest parishes in England, with a population over 22,000), bot most are rather small. It would be interesting to hear how that works.

Pretty well, and they're fairly popular (in the sense that these things are popular). There's been a transfer of assets IIRC which makes them financially viable and with actual things to do. ricmk will know more.