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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2020 5:00:57 GMT
While I recognise the existence of Durham council, the names ‘Durham North’ and ‘Durham North West’ are rather misleading considering 100000s of people live further north in what they would consider Durham. The latter in particularly stretches rather far south. ‘Chester Le Street’ and ‘Consett and Weardale’ would be preferable in my view. ‘Blyth Valley’ is named after an old council area and is unnecessarily long. ‘Blyth’ is fine. Not a fan of ‘Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland’. ‘Middlesbrough South and Guisborough’ would be a good name instead. ‘Barrow and Furness’ is rather problematic considering most of the population of Furness is in Barrow. ‘Barrow’ is fine. ‘Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford’ (and Knottingley according to Yvette Cooper) is unnecessarily long. Would it really be a great injustice to simply call it ‘Castleford’? The last one is a good example of people power and how important the views of local people are. The Commission suggested two of the three names. Yvette said to them that it was important for all three places to be named because the omitted name would feel aggrieved. They agreed that only using two would upset the third, and cause potential confusion with voters in the long run, so it became a three name seat. "Castleford" suggests the seat only covers that one town. It doesn't. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2020 5:02:51 GMT
Gravesham should be Gravesend NW Norfolk should be Kings Lynn NE Cambridgshire should be Wisbech North Devon should be Barnstaple North Herefordshire should be Leominster SW Wiltshire should be Westbury North Wiltshire should be Malmesbury NW Hamshire should be Andover East Hampshire should be Petersfield SW Surrey should be Farnham Staffordshire Moorlands should be Leek West Lancashire should be Ormskirk Hertsmere is a crap name. In contrast with those who entertain the bizarre notion that a constituency should not be named after a settlement if it contains some other settlements, I should be perfectly happy for it to be called Elstree Ormskirk is misleading. The seat covers more than just that town. |
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Post by Andrew_S on Jun 27, 2020 5:05:56 GMT
Gravesham should be Gravesend NW Norfolk should be Kings Lynn NE Cambridgshire should be Wisbech North Devon should be Barnstaple North Herefordshire should be Leominster SW Wiltshire should be Westbury North Wiltshire should be Malmesbury NW Hamshire should be Andover East Hampshire should be Petersfield SW Surrey should be Farnham Staffordshire Moorlands should be Leek West Lancashire should be Ormskirk Hertsmere is a crap name. In contrast with those who entertain the bizarre notion that a constituency should not be named after a settlement if it contains some other settlements, I should be perfectly happy for it to be called Elstree Ormskirk is misleading. The seat covers more than just that town. Nothing wrong with just one name for a constituency in my opinion. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2020 5:09:05 GMT
And it's commonly, and completely wrongly, referred to, even in quite august publications, as "Tyneside North". I don't suppose nearby "Shields South" has also cropped up? Just think, we could create "Bridgford West"; "Shields South"; and "Kilbride East" |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2020 5:26:07 GMT
Ormskirk is misleading. The seat covers more than just that town. Nothing wrong with just one name for a constituency in my opinion. I've always believed that it depends on individual circumstances. "Burnley" is fine in a way that "Ormskirk" is not and I think it's down to the Commission to make a view on each individual case. One-word names across the board would be exclusionary, Canada-style names across the board would be cumbersome and unwieldy. Somewhere in the middle is the British way of fixing and fudging whichever process fits. |
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Post by yellowperil on Jun 27, 2020 6:03:02 GMT
Gravesham should be Gravesend NW Norfolk should be Kings Lynn NE Cambridgshire should be Wisbech North Devon should be Barnstaple North Herefordshire should be Leominster SW Wiltshire should be Westbury North Wiltshire should be Malmesbury NW Hamshire should be Andover East Hampshire should be Petersfield SW Surrey should be Farnham Staffordshire Moorlands should be Leek West Lancashire should be Ormskirk Hertsmere is a crap name. In contrast with those who entertain the bizarre notion that a constituency should not be named after a settlement if it contains some other settlements, I should be perfectly happy for it to be called Elstree Good suggestions. I like constituency names which are just one place in the constituency like Burton which could have easily been re-named East Staffordshire or Burton & Uttoxeter but thankfully never has been. Also I don't think more than two names should be used except very sparingly. Inverness, Nairn and Lochaber was okay although just Inverness was probably better. Instead of Croydon Central / North / South you could have Croydon / Norbury / Coulsdon. An interesting exercise would be to try to name every constituency after just one place in this way. Orkney & Shetland would be an exception.Nah, just try calling that one Kirkwall. |
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Post by yellowperil on Jun 27, 2020 6:04:19 GMT
Didcot is a pretty important railway junction so I suspect many will have heard of it, certainly more than Wantage. Yeah, I'm pretty sure I've never heard of Wantage outside of electoral contexts. Not even a well known limerick? |
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YL
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Post by YL on Jun 27, 2020 6:43:33 GMT
Ormskirk is misleading. The seat covers more than just that town. "West Lancashire" is misleading too; there is lots of Lancashire, mostly on the Fylde, which is west of most or all of that constituency. (And the situation is even worse if we consider the historic county.) It's actually one of the worst compass point names IMO, up there with East Devon and East Yorkshire, even if it is the name of the district. Not being someone who thinks that single word names are particularly preferable, I would call it Ormskirk & Skelmersdale, after its two main towns. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2020 6:53:27 GMT
Ormskirk is misleading. The seat covers more than just that town. "West Lancashire" is misleading too; there is lots of Lancashire, mostly on the Fylde, which is west of most or all of that constituency. (And the situation is even worse if we consider the historic county.) It's actually one of the worst compass point names IMO, up there with East Devon and East Yorkshire, even if it is the name of the district. Not being someone who thinks that single word names are particularly preferable, I would call it Ormskirk & Skelmersdale, after its two main towns. I guess if the 1970s reforms had chosen a better name for the borough we wouldn't have this difference in opinion! |
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Post by YL on Jun 27, 2020 6:56:40 GMT
North West Cambridgeshire - Isle of Ely I presume you mean NE, not NW, but even so: no. It may be a nice quirky old-fashioned name, but it doesn't make sense to call a constituency "Isle of Ely" if it doesn't contain Ely and its immediate surroundings. It wouldn't really make sense for SE Cambridgeshire either. That said, I think Ely is the only city in England which isn't mentioned in a constituency name, counting the parts separately for Brighton and Hove. There are three in Wales (two tiny of course) and Lisburn and Derry (taking "East Londonderry" as referring to the county, not the city, as it doesn't contain any part of the latter) in NI. |
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Post by minionofmidas on Jun 27, 2020 7:33:28 GMT
"West Lancashire" is misleading too; there is lots of Lancashire, mostly on the Fylde, which is west of most or all of that constituency. (And the situation is even worse if we consider the historic county.) It's actually one of the worst compass point names IMO, up there with East Devon and East Yorkshire, even if it is the name of the district. Not being someone who thinks that single word names are particularly preferable, I would call it Ormskirk & Skelmersdale, after its two main towns. I guess if the 1970s reforms had chosen a better name for the borough we wouldn't have this difference in opinion! Remarkably the name goes back all the way to 1894 in local government, and has been misleading throughout. And no, I don't know any limerick about Wantage, but then I'm not a native speaker of English.  Edit: having googled it, yeah I think I've seen it before. |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Jun 27, 2020 8:00:21 GMT
Slightly tongue-in-cheek but not really a joke. Everybody seems to be under the impression that the constituency doesn't cover anything other than the town of Stroud, despite it being the least representative part of the area. Nobody is under that impression apart from a few morons. It's true that this category of people includes a large number of lazy political journalists who do the same with every constituency of this type, but that is a good reason not to employ morons as political journalists rather than a reason to adopt moronic constituency names |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2020 8:21:05 GMT
The Welsh ones mentioned in this thread are interesting because of the use of "Clwyd" which does not exist as a local authority, and the non-use of "Flintshire" which is.
The Welsh Boundary Commission recommended dual names (or official names with translations at least) during both Zombie reviews, of course.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2020 8:29:05 GMT
North West Cambridgeshire - Isle of Ely I presume you mean NE, not NW, but even so: no. It may be a nice quirky old-fashioned name, but it doesn't make sense to call a constituency "Isle of Ely" if it doesn't contain Ely and its immediate surroundings. It wouldn't really make sense for SE Cambridgeshire either. That said, I think Ely is the only city in England which isn't mentioned in a constituency name, counting the parts separately for Brighton and Hove. There are three in Wales (two tiny of course) and Lisburn and Derry (taking "East Londonderry" as referring to the county, not the city, as it doesn't contain any part of the latter) in NI. I did indeed mean NE, my mistake, but didn’t realise Ely was not in the constituency. |
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Post by minionofmidas on Jun 27, 2020 8:34:56 GMT
The Welsh ones mentioned in this thread are interesting because of the use of "Clwyd" which does not exist as a local authority, and the non-use of "Flintshire" which is. The Welsh Boundary Commission recommended dual names (or official names with translations at least) during both Zombie reviews, of course. Since boundaries in the area didn't change in the last real review, why change names? (Same in Dyfed.) Also of course the "preserved counties" of Wales functioned as a basis of apportionment in that review, so Clwyd (unlike Dinefwr and Preseli Pembrokeshire) kind of still existed. The really remarkable thing is Aberconwy, newly named for an already abolished 74 district, though an exactly coterminous one. Someone suggested it at the local hearing and nobody intervened. (The commission had suggested to keep Conwy.) |
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Post by johnloony on Jun 27, 2020 8:54:34 GMT
Good suggestions. I like constituency names which are just one place in the constituency like Burton which could have easily been re-named East Staffordshire or Burton & Uttoxeter but thankfully never has been. Also I don't think more than two names should be used except very sparingly. Inverness, Nairn and Lochaber was okay although just Inverness was probably better. Instead of Croydon Central / North / South you could have Croydon / Norbury / Coulsdon. An interesting exercise would be to try to name every constituency after just one place in this way. Orkney & Shetland would be an exception.Nah, just try calling that one Kirkwall. In the 10th/11th centuries, the Norse overlords called the Hebrides and the Isle of Man the "Sudreys" (southern isles) (hence the surviving name of "Sodor and Man") and they called Orkney & Shetland the "Nordreys" (northern isles). So you could call it "Nordrey". Or you could invent a modern portmanteau name like Kirkwick. Or Hoynst. Or something. |
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Post by heslingtonian on Jun 27, 2020 9:08:05 GMT
Harrow West. It's Harrow Central not Harrow West
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2020 9:12:59 GMT
I’d love for one of Richmond (Yorks) and Richmond Park to be renamed. It drives me crazy. Richmond and Northallerton would be greatly preferable. Northallerton is bigger and is the county town. Richmondshire? |
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Post by carlton43 on Jun 27, 2020 9:28:26 GMT
I don't like 'Gedling' as a name, or 'Broxbourne', but I tend to go along with them because I can't think of a better name and, although fairly small and obscure, these are at least real places - unlike, say, 'Hertsmere' and 'Castle Point' which are entirely factitious names of places that don't exist at all. Hertsmere should be S Herts. I don't know about Castle Point but almost anything else would be better. Castle Point is also the name of the local government district. To get rid of one, you'd have to deal with the other too.
My bugbear is constituency names of the City, Area type that persist even though the centre of gravity of the constituency has moved; Birmingham, Edgbaston being one example. Edgbaston exists, for sure - the cricket ground is testament to that - but it's at the far end of the constituency, and is an amorphous area with no identifiable "centre". Birmingham, Harborne would be a much better name, closer to the middle of the seat and with a lively high street as a focus for activity.
Is there any specific reason why a constituency should in its name bear any relevence at all to other matters including the local authority? I prefer directness, clarity and common sense information about what and where the constituency is. So no Bassetlaws, no 'The Deepings', always one sole name wherever possible, no foreign languages unknown to the majority of the population of Britain, and no cumbersome 'catch-all' splurge names that are a complete nonsense. This constituency is Canvey or Canvey Island. That places and identifies it for us all. It contains other bits as well. So what? Don't care. Doesn't matter. A prime obvious name matters not nit-picking complexity and silliness. But we live in an age of nit-picking silliness and wankers pandering to every community and preferring complexity and irritating foreign wording to massage an extreme minority of clots and twerps. |
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Jun 27, 2020 9:35:36 GMT
Staffordshire Moorlands should be Leek Though I agree with many of your other suggestions I think the present name is a good one, and IMO quite accurate descriptively. |
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