bsjmcr
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Post by bsjmcr on Jun 26, 2020 14:43:47 GMT
Related to the "Abolished Constituency Names You Would Like To See Return" thread, and following a robust discussion on why Don Valley should/shouldn't be Doncaster South... discuss!
Blackley and Broughton, Garston and Halewood - the well known (Manchester/Liverpool), descending into the unknown (and unpronounceable in the former). The inconsistency is telling - Norwich North and Romsea and Southampton North are examples of good practise.
On the other hand, use of City, Area names for when compass points would suffice - Plymouth for example.
Silly historic/unknown geographical features/nonexistent 'hundreds' which nobody could tell you where they were: Eddisbury, Weaver Vale. Call me a hypocrite but Tatton is an exception to this, due to the events of 1997 and that it is a nationally well-known feature. Many of the xxx Valley (Amber, Meon, Mole) seats fall into this category. Westmorland and Lonsdale - surely Lake District/South Cumbria would be better.
More than two compass points for two different places/names resulting in nonexistent compass points: Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland, South Basildon and East Thurrock - because why is there no M'brough North or Thurrock West? Also: Worsley and Eccles South - no Eccles North! The PM's constituency falls into this category too.
Unnecessarily long names for overhanging bits that would identify with the wider area, e.g. Central Suffolk and North Ipswich, Mid Dorset and North Poole - I'm sure Ipswich and Poole are in Suffolk and Dorset, respectively. Hereford and South Herefordshire needs no introduction.
Pointlessly small hamlets being named, probably due to NIMBYism/pitchforks over the years: Harrogate and Knaresborough, Shrewsbury and Atcham, plus too many Scottish ones to list here.
Places that are too small (forming less than 50% of the electorate) but have the whole name to themselves, especially when a more identifiable name would be tidy and unproblematic: Witney instead of West Oxfordshire.
Unknown and unplaceable borough councils which are not named after a principal town - Broxtowe, Rushcliffe, Gedling (the village is too small). Seeing as they all have NG postcodes, they should adopt the Birmingham system of Nottingham... Beeston, West Bridgford, Carlton, etc and following on from the Norwich North system of not giving two hoots whether most of the seat isn't in the City council area. Meanwhile Bassetlaw can be North Nottinghamshire (in fact even the council has to mention that fact in their logo)
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Jun 26, 2020 14:45:03 GMT
Westmorland is a historic county though!
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Post by therealriga on Jun 26, 2020 15:00:42 GMT
Four words or "A & B" should be the limit for constituency names. No "A, B & C" names or the even worse Scots variants.
I actually like the "City - district" type names, they have a lot more character than "City - compass point" type names.
"County - compass point" names should only be used if no geographical feature or combination of no more than two can be found. Give me "Forest of Dean" or "Derbyshire Dales" any day over "West Glos/West Derbyshire"
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Post by finsobruce on Jun 26, 2020 15:06:17 GMT
Westmorland is a historic county though! The first ever Labour candidate for Westmorland (1924) was Reginald Burnett who originated from Oldbury via Cambridge University.
Wikipedia has 'Penrith' as his middle name, which I can't find anywhere in the archives, although his father's middle initial was P. In the run up to the 1929 election both East Aberdeenshire and Dundee thought he was their man but he ended up being the candidate in Lancaster.
In Geoffrey Acland it also had one of the indefatigle Liberal candidates. He stood in 1945, 1950, 1951, 1955 and 1959.
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Post by islington on Jun 26, 2020 15:15:55 GMT
I don't like 'Gedling' as a name, or 'Broxbourne', but I tend to go along with them because I can't think of a better name and, although fairly small and obscure, these are at least real places - unlike, say, 'Hertsmere' and 'Castle Point' which are entirely factitious names of places that don't exist at all.
Hertsmere should be S Herts. I don't know about Castle Point but almost anything else would be better.
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YL
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Post by YL on Jun 26, 2020 15:18:13 GMT
All "Mid" names: vague and a cop out.
Names based on 1970s neologisms for local government districts: Delyn, Hyndburn, etc.
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Post by carolus on Jun 26, 2020 15:19:59 GMT
I'd much rather find a nice geographic or historic feature to name areas after than the tedious "Big Town & Small town" or "County Compass Point Because We Can't Think Of Anything". (I have similar disappointments with council names). Constituencies should be named on their own merits rather than needing reference to some much larger county name. If you want boring standardisation, simply number the constituencies and have done with it. "Mid" anything appears to mean "Oops we already used all the compass points, and we've got some county left over". Mid Sussex particularly offends because it combines a boring name with a horrible shape. I suppose at least it has an excuse that the council shares its name.
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Chris from Brum
Lib Dem
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Post by Chris from Brum on Jun 26, 2020 15:25:51 GMT
I don't like 'Gedling' as a name, or 'Broxbourne', but I tend to go along with them because I can't think of a better name and, although fairly small and obscure, these are at least real places - unlike, say, 'Hertsmere' and 'Castle Point' which are entirely factitious names of places that don't exist at all. Hertsmere should be S Herts. I don't know about Castle Point but almost anything else would be better. Castle Point is also the name of the local government district. To get rid of one, you'd have to deal with the other too.
My bugbear is constituency names of the City, Area type that persist even though the centre of gravity of the constituency has moved; Birmingham, Edgbaston being one example. Edgbaston exists, for sure - the cricket ground is testament to that - but it's at the far end of the constituency, and is an amorphous area with no identifiable "centre". Birmingham, Harborne would be a much better name, closer to the middle of the seat and with a lively high street as a focus for activity.
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Post by therealriga on Jun 26, 2020 15:26:16 GMT
I don't like 'Gedling' as a name, or 'Broxbourne', but I tend to go along with them because I can't think of a better name and, although fairly small and obscure, these are at least real places - unlike, say, 'Hertsmere' and 'Castle Point' which are entirely factitious names of places that don't exist at all. Hertsmere should be S Herts. I don't know about Castle Point but almost anything else would be better. Broxbourne - Cheshunt and Hoddesdon Castle Point - Canvey Island Gedling - Arnold and Carlton |
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Post by Merseymike on Jun 26, 2020 15:31:07 GMT
I don't like 'Gedling' as a name, or 'Broxbourne', but I tend to go along with them because I can't think of a better name and, although fairly small and obscure, these are at least real places - unlike, say, 'Hertsmere' and 'Castle Point' which are entirely factitious names of places that don't exist at all. Hertsmere should be S Herts. I don't know about Castle Point but almost anything else would be better. Why can't Gedling be Carlton and Arnold, Hertsmere - Potters Bar and Borehamwood, Broxbourne - Cheshunt and Waltham Cross, Castle Point - Benfleet and Canvey? |
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Post by mattb on Jun 26, 2020 15:31:14 GMT
I don't like 'Gedling' as a name, or 'Broxbourne', but I tend to go along with them because I can't think of a better name and, although fairly small and obscure, these are at least real places - unlike, say, 'Hertsmere' and 'Castle Point' which are entirely factitious names of places that don't exist at all. Hertsmere should be S Herts. I don't know about Castle Point but almost anything else would be better. Broxbourne - Cheshunt and Hoddesdon Castle Point - Canvey Island Gedling - Arnold and Carlton Canvey is only about a third of Castle Point. It would have to be Benfleet & Canvey or Hadleigh & Canvey I think. |
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Post by finsobruce on Jun 26, 2020 15:33:05 GMT
I don't like 'Gedling' as a name, or 'Broxbourne', but I tend to go along with them because I can't think of a better name and, although fairly small and obscure, these are at least real places - unlike, say, 'Hertsmere' and 'Castle Point' which are entirely factitious names of places that don't exist at all. Hertsmere should be S Herts. I don't know about Castle Point but almost anything else would be better. Broxbourne - Cheshunt and Hoddesdon Castle Point - Canvey Island Gedling - Arnold and Carltonsounds like a 30s film duo like Charters and Caldicott. |
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Post by mattb on Jun 26, 2020 15:34:14 GMT
Related to the "Abolished Constituency Names You Would Like To See Return" thread, and following a robust discussion on why Don Valley should/shouldn't be Doncaster South... discuss! Blackley and Broughton, Garston and Halewood - the well known (Manchester/Liverpool), descending into the unknown (and unpronounceable in the former). The inconsistency is telling - Norwich North and Romsea and Southampton North are examples of good practise. On the other hand, use of City, Area names for when compass points would suffice - Plymouth for example. Silly historic/unknown geographical features/nonexistent 'hundreds' which nobody could tell you where they were: Eddisbury, Weaver Vale. Call me a hypocrite but Tatton is an exception to this, due to the events of 1997 and that it is a nationally well-known feature. Many of the xxx Valley (Amber, Meon, Mole) seats fall into this category. Westmorland and Lonsdale - surely Lake District/South Cumbria would be better. More than two compass points for two different places/names resulting in nonexistent compass points: Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland, South Basildon and East Thurrock - because why is there no M'brough North or Thurrock West? Also: Worsley and Eccles South - no Eccles North! The PM's constituency falls into this category too. Unnecessarily long names for overhanging bits that would identify with the wider area, e.g. Central Suffolk and North Ipswich, Mid Dorset and North Poole - I'm sure Ipswich and Poole are in Suffolk and Dorset, respectively. Hereford and South Herefordshire needs no introduction. Pointlessly small hamlets being named, probably due to NIMBYism/pitchforks over the years: Harrogate and Knaresborough, Shrewsbury and Atcham, plus too many Scottish ones to list here. Places that are too small (forming less than 50% of the electorate) but have the whole name to themselves, especially when a more identifiable name would be tidy and unproblematic: Witney instead of West Oxfordshire. Unknown and unplaceable borough councils which are not named after a principal town - Broxtowe, Rushcliffe, Gedling (the village is too small). Seeing as they all have NG postcodes, they should adopt the Birmingham system of Nottingham... Beeston, West Bridgford, Carlton, etc and following on from the Norwich North system of not giving two hoots whether most of the seat isn't in the City council area. Meanwhile Bassetlaw can be North Nottinghamshire (in fact even the council has to mention that fact in their logo) I agree with almost all of this. But as it happens the PM's constituency is not quite in the same category - South Ruislip is really a separate place (not just the southern part of Ruislip). |
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bsjmcr
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Post by bsjmcr on Jun 26, 2020 15:39:24 GMT
I don't like 'Gedling' as a name, or 'Broxbourne', but I tend to go along with them because I can't think of a better name and, although fairly small and obscure, these are at least real places - unlike, say, 'Hertsmere' and 'Castle Point' which are entirely factitious names of places that don't exist at all. Hertsmere should be S Herts. I don't know about Castle Point but almost anything else would be better. Castle Point is also the name of the local government district. To get rid of one, you'd have to deal with the other too.
My bugbear is constituency names of the City, Area type that persist even though the centre of gravity of the constituency has moved; Birmingham, Edgbaston being one example. Edgbaston exists, for sure - the cricket ground is testament to that - but it's at the far end of the constituency, and is an amorphous area with no identifiable "centre". Birmingham, Harborne would be a much better name, closer to the middle of the seat and with a lively high street as a focus for activity.
CP used to be South East Essex, apparently, though it now doesn't look very East, more like South Essex Central, which might not go down very well on here. But at least other people would know where that it is. Agree with the City Area ones, which is the case with Manchester. Cheetham Hill probably has the biggest population in Blackley and Broughton, and sits in the middle, but it really is a district with no centre of gravity and is extremely diverse, so Manchester North genuinely makes the most sense - most of the amenities contained within are North Manchester... anyway. However, as you say Manchester Didsbury could make more sense than Withington now. Didsbury now has two wards to itself, Withington is just one. Then again, Chorlton has two as well. Manchester Gorton can be left be as it until recently had two wards, and isn't all that different in character to the others. On the other hand, I'm surprised a name with the worldwide recognition of Trafford hasn't been featured. I'd take Old Trafford/Trafford North anyday over Stretford and Urmston. Similarly, Wembley, instead of Brent X. Clearly one size doesn't fit all. |
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bsjmcr
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Post by bsjmcr on Jun 26, 2020 15:53:17 GMT
Some places named are hardly real places any more it seems. Harlington appears to have been reduced to (or perhaps always was) a hamlet - Hayes and Heathrow anyone?
Haltemprice - all I could find was a leisure centre with that name. Howden alone appears sufficient?
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Chris from Brum
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Post by Chris from Brum on Jun 26, 2020 16:05:19 GMT
Some places named are hardly real places any more it seems. Harlington appears to have been reduced to (or perhaps always was) a hamlet - Hayes and Heathrow anyone? Haltemprice - all I could find was a leisure centre with that name. Howden alone appears sufficient? Haltemprice was the name of an urban district covering the villages to the west of Hull, including Anlaby where said leisure centre is. There was formerly a constituency named simply Haltemprice, this was abolished in 1983. Marks and Gran revived the name for Alan B'Stard's constituency in The New Statesman a few years after that, but the series had ended by the time Haltemprice and Howden was created. In the interim, the area was covered by the constituencies of Beverley and Boothferry - and the latter is named, like the former local government district of that name, after a smallish village that happens to be the site of the bridge over the Ouse that linked the former East and West riding parts of the district. |
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Post by where2travel on Jun 26, 2020 16:11:49 GMT
Beckenham annoys me a bit, given that a decent-sized chunk of the town is not actually in the constituency (the Clock House ward and the Cator part of Penge & Cator). The library, leisure centre, fire station are outside the constituency boundary, together with several of the town's railway stations.
The name was better a better fit on the pre-2010 boundaries. That said, I haven't decided on my preferred alternative name. Until I can think of anything better, I'd possibly go back to the old Ravensbourne name which was used up to 1997 (although that name was used alongside Beckenham as a separate constituency). I definitely wouldn't want the borough name (Bromley) with compass points.
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Post by Wisconsin on Jun 26, 2020 16:14:09 GMT
City of Chester - why do we need a reminder that it’s a city?
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Post by bjornhattan on Jun 26, 2020 16:19:19 GMT
City of Chester - why do we need a reminder that it’s a city? It is an odd one - the other city names have much more obvious purposes: "Cities of London and Westminster" to emphasise this covers the City of London, not all of London*, and "City of Durham" to avoid confusion with the County. * Though if that constituency gained the Holborn wards as has sometimes been proposed, or other areas from other boroughs, maybe it should be renamed to "London Central" or similar? |
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Post by Wisconsin on Jun 26, 2020 16:21:20 GMT
Hackney North and Stoke Newington -> Hackney North
Hackney South and Shoreditch -> Hackney South
It’s time to move on.
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