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Post by yellowperil on Jun 20, 2020 8:24:27 GMT
Maybe (and this is a Lib Dem 'wet dream') we would have treated the islands as a five-member constituency elected by STV. Special circs like the old university seats. This is an alternative universe. Who knows, the whole of the UK might have come to its senses and 5 member constituencies elected by STV might have been the norm , so Malta would have fitted in well. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2020 9:55:39 GMT
Another thing to consider: does Malta end up becoming a primarily English-speaking place in this scenario, or is this unchanged? In real life at present, the vast majority of Maltese people are bilingual, but there seems to be a consensus that most people prefer to speak Maltese and read and write English. My perception at least that it is challenging to live in Malta if you don't at least understand English, but that job opportunities are quite limited in practice if you can't also speak Maltese. How this panned out in the alternate universe could have an impact on the nature and volume of migration from the rest of the UK.
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pl
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Post by pl on Jun 20, 2020 10:26:31 GMT
Another thing to consider: does Malta end up becoming a primarily English-speaking place in this scenario, or is this unchanged? In real life at present, the vast majority of Maltese people are bilingual, but there seems to be a consensus that most people prefer to speak Maltese and read and write English. My perception at least that it is challenging to live in Malta if you don't at least understand English, but that job opportunities are quite limited in practice if you can't also speak Maltese. How this panned out in the alternate universe could have an impact on the nature and volume of migration from the rest of the UK. I’m going to suggest more English speaking. Public administration and public services would probably involve more people from GB and NI. There would have been more people moving from GB and NI to Malta too. Come to think of it, there probably would have been more movement of people from Malta to GB. Add to that you’d have had the UK media present in Malta and greater cultural links. Parts of Malta would probably look like parts of rural Wales today. |
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Post by AdminSTB on Jun 20, 2020 11:12:15 GMT
Interesting discussion. I think in the past we've discussed what might happen if Malta, the Channel Islands, the Falklands and so on were to send MPs to the House of Commons.
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pl
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Post by pl on Jun 20, 2020 11:41:04 GMT
How about this for a scenario.
After accession to the UK, Maltese politicians push for and get a government department moved to Malta. Don’t worry, the DVLA stays in Swansea! It and the DSS in Newcastle are too big for Malta.
But say 500-1,000 well paid central government jobs initially in addition to the devolved administration and defence jobs. Public administration becomes a core industry for Malta, and probably skews the island’s politics somewhat to the left.
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neilm
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Post by neilm on Jun 26, 2020 12:22:36 GMT
Great thread! Seems to me that Malta would be no more significant than Gibraltar. Disagree. Part of the reason that Gibraltar is ignored by people here is because it doesn't have an MP. With parliamentary representation comes more significance. Additionally, Gibraltar is far smaller than Malta (plus 40% of it is a mountain): fewer people put it to the back of people's minds. The impact of two devolved areas in the UK might have hastened devolution in other regions. |
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Post by neilm on Jun 26, 2020 13:50:37 GMT
There was a movement to join Gibraltar with the UK as well, which controlled the old House of Assembly in the early 1970s. Unfortunately, the hopes for that were dashed by Roy Hattersley in the mid 1970s. They pushed ahead with proposals anyway and the FCO released the Hattersley Memorandum, putting the kibosh firmly on hopes of integration.
If integration had gone ahead, Gibraltar would be in a far stronger position as an actual part of the UK- the Spaniards always argue that Ceuta and Melilla are full, inalienable parts of Spain rather than colonies and therefore can not be given up.
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Post by finsobruce on Jun 26, 2020 13:56:22 GMT
There was a movement to join Gibraltar with the UK as well, which controlled the old House of Assembly in the early 1970s. Unfortunately, the hopes for that were dashed by Roy Hattersley in the mid 1970s. They pushed ahead with proposals anyway and the FCO released the Hattersley Memorandum, putting the kibosh firmly on hopes of integration. If integration had gone ahead, Gibraltar would be in a far stronger position as an actual part of the UK- the Spaniards always argue that Ceuta and Melilla are full, inalienable parts of Spain rather than colonies and therefore can not be given up. I had no idea there was a historic "Hattersley Memorandum". Good stuff. |
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neilm
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Post by neilm on Jun 26, 2020 14:26:09 GMT
There was a movement to join Gibraltar with the UK as well, which controlled the old House of Assembly in the early 1970s. Unfortunately, the hopes for that were dashed by Roy Hattersley in the mid 1970s. They pushed ahead with proposals anyway and the FCO released the Hattersley Memorandum, putting the kibosh firmly on hopes of integration. If integration had gone ahead, Gibraltar would be in a far stronger position as an actual part of the UK- the Spaniards always argue that Ceuta and Melilla are full, inalienable parts of Spain rather than colonies and therefore can not be given up. I had no idea there was a historic "Hattersley Memorandum". Good stuff. Indeed, it's possibly his only real legacy from his time in office. The reason given by the FCO was that integration would exacerbate the border closure and irritate Spain: remarkably short sighted, really, as Spain didn't open the gates properly until 1986 when they were made too and clearly weren't going to budge on the issue at all in the mid-70s, regardless of who took over after Franco died. |
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Post by finsobruce on Jun 26, 2020 14:29:27 GMT
I had no idea there was a historic "Hattersley Memorandum". Good stuff. Indeed, it's possibly his only real legacy from his time in office. The reason given by the FCO was that integration would exacerbate the border closure and irritate Spain: remarkably short sighted, really, as Spain didn't open the gates properly until 1986 when they were made too and clearly weren't going to budge on the issue at all in the mid-70s, regardless of who took over after Franco died. Have you read his 1996 book of political memoirs "Who Goes Home?". Well worth it imho. Available v cheaply on 't internet. |
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Post by neilm on Jun 26, 2020 14:38:40 GMT
Indeed, it's possibly his only real legacy from his time in office. The reason given by the FCO was that integration would exacerbate the border closure and irritate Spain: remarkably short sighted, really, as Spain didn't open the gates properly until 1986 when they were made too and clearly weren't going to budge on the issue at all in the mid-70s, regardless of who took over after Franco died. Have you read his 1996 book of political memoirs "Who Goes Home?". Well worth it imho. Available v cheaply on 't internet. I read 'A Yorkshire Boyhood' on a rainy family holiday in the Lakes in the mid-90s. I hadn't realised until then that 'Jerusalem' was associated with the Labour Party. |
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Post by finsobruce on Jun 26, 2020 14:45:37 GMT
Have you read his 1996 book of political memoirs "Who Goes Home?". Well worth it imho. Available v cheaply on 't internet. I read 'A Yorkshire Boyhood' on a rainy family holiday in the Lakes in the mid-90s. I hadn't realised until then that 'Jerusalem' was associated with the Labour Party. Also good. His book of the supposed diaries of his pet dog, not so much. |
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neilm
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Post by neilm on Jun 26, 2020 15:20:11 GMT
I read 'A Yorkshire Boyhood' on a rainy family holiday in the Lakes in the mid-90s. I hadn't realised until then that 'Jerusalem' was associated with the Labour Party. Also good. His book of the supposed diaries of his pet dog, not so much. A school friend reviewed that for our Sixth Form magazine (the one you write for to add to a university application). Or rather, he gave up pretty quickly and lifted the review from somewhere else. |
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Post by 🏴☠️ Neath West 🏴☠️ on Jun 26, 2020 15:58:11 GMT
There was a movement to join Gibraltar with the UK as well, which controlled the old House of Assembly in the early 1970s. Unfortunately, the hopes for that were dashed by Roy Hattersley in the mid 1970s. They pushed ahead with proposals anyway and the FCO released the Hattersley Memorandum, putting the kibosh firmly on hopes of integration. If integration had gone ahead, Gibraltar would be in a far stronger position as an actual part of the UK- the Spaniards always argue that Ceuta and Melilla are full, inalienable parts of Spain rather than colonies and therefore can not be given up. One of those real "Whose side are the FCO on anyway?" moments. |
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Jun 26, 2020 17:28:47 GMT
I read 'A Yorkshire Boyhood' on a rainy family holiday in the Lakes in the mid-90s. I hadn't realised until then that 'Jerusalem' was associated with the Labour Party. Also good. His book of the supposed diaries of his pet dog, not so much. This was the goose killer, yes? |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jul 1, 2020 10:08:05 GMT
Another thing to consider: does Malta end up becoming a primarily English-speaking place in this scenario, or is this unchanged? In real life at present, the vast majority of Maltese people are bilingual, but there seems to be a consensus that most people prefer to speak Maltese and read and write English. My perception at least that it is challenging to live in Malta if you don't at least understand English, but that job opportunities are quite limited in practice if you can't also speak Maltese. How this panned out in the alternate universe could have an impact on the nature and volume of migration from the rest of the UK. I’m going to suggest more English speaking. Public administration and public services would probably involve more people from GB and NI. There would have been more people moving from GB and NI to Malta too. Come to think of it, there probably would have been more movement of people from Malta to GB. Add to that you’d have had the UK media present in Malta and greater cultural links. Parts of Malta would probably look like parts of rural Wales today. Given Maltese prowess in singing, and their interest in Italian culture as well, I wonder if Maltese music becomes a cultural phenomenon in the UK in the way rai has in France, or reggaeton in Spain. |
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Post by timrollpickering on Jul 1, 2020 11:05:16 GMT
The UK would do even worse in Eurovision without Malta to vote for us.
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Post by finsobruce on Jul 1, 2020 12:38:08 GMT
The UK would do even worse in Eurovision without Malta to vote for us. How many points do they usually give us? |
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Post by timrollpickering on Jul 1, 2020 14:33:22 GMT
I haven't got the figures to hand but Malta, Ireland and the UK are often a recognisable voting block.
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Post by LDCaerdydd on Jul 1, 2020 14:42:31 GMT
The public vote (not jury):
2019: 0
2018: 1
2017: 4
2016: 1
2015: 1
2014: 4
2013: 5
2012: 0
2011: 7
2010: 0
2009: 10
Malta first joined in 1971 we scored 8 out of a possible 10 and we were their juries favourite (no one scored 10), their jury gave us 2 in 1972 and they next took place in 1975 when they gave us 8 (now out of 12)
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